“I can’t breathe”
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06-12-2014, 10:44 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2014 11:28 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: “I can’t breathe”
I really didn't want to reply, but must. This is such a hot topic, and it is anything but simple. First lets look at WHY the AA community is where it is....as a crim justice major, this is near and dear to my heart....

Anytime an empowered demographic group thinks they have the advantage of superiority over another demographic group things seem to quickly go downhill for the "lesser" group. From labeling theory, to barriers to higher education, to socio-economic challenges related to all of the above, to development of frustration and anti-social mentalities, and then the proclivity to do crimes for survival, to crimes from anger, to higher incarceration rates, to development of a stereotype, to becoming the stereotype, which leads to recidivism and a cycle of never ending inability to thrive.....that paradigm can be placed upon any "lesser" group, and allows the "superior" group to look down upon the other, and point to the facts of high crime and low education as if they wanted that existence or had many other options..... and this applies worldwide….and very much so to the african american community.

Now, being the hard right, ex cop, anti excuse asshole that I am, I hate cards, and the new generation of americans of ALL colors love to throw them..it is the "non blame" society we are watching come into power now....common defense used these days is Johnny murdered that family of 4 because he is desensitized to violence due to growing up in a violent neighborhood, and his dad used to smack him around....I will admit that is a contributing factor, but in the end johnny decided to kill the family of 4 while fully understanding it is wrong, just didnt give a fuck and did it anyway, and then sits there polishing his nails in court while his attorney pleads his "tough childhood"....or when I would pull someone over for speeding, "you pulled me over for DWB" (driving while black)...no sir, i pulled you over because you were speeding, I didn't know your race until I approached your car.....oh my I am going off on a rant...sorry, back to business...

2 factors are also contributory; AA youth are taught the system is racist (which technically is true based on sentencing, profiling etc) which makes them walk around suspecting everything around them is racist and out to get them. Another contr4ibutory factor is within the AA community, they attack each other if one is viewed to not be "acting black enough." This is a fact discussed a lot within my crim just classes, where the vast majority of the time, I am one of two white people in the class, the rest are AA and they acknowledge this issue. Going to school? Not cool. Dressed for success? look at you trying to be white. Ridiculous, it is as if they strive to keep each other down...fulfilling the stereotype. Culture is a limiting factor as well and has a lot to do with it, as I have just implied.

Back in the 70s a common term used in police stations was "usual", at the muster they would put out BOLOs (Be on the lookout)..."last night at midnight Johhny's liquor store was robbed, 2 usuals"....that meant two african americans...now why is that? THAT is the hard question we should be looking into.

It is a circular paradigm...stereotypes continue to exist because so many within the community seem to strive to fulfill that stereotype...how do we break that cycle? The LAw Enforcement and court systems see so many "usuals" before them day in and day out that they slip into an assumption of guilt....truly.

Speaking of CHANGE, how about we change this little fact:

In 2012 FBI stats show that 4,101 murders were perpetrated by caucasians..which make up 72 % of the overall US population.

In 2012 FBI stats show that 4,203 murders were perpetrated by AA...which make up 13.2% of the US population...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri...verviewpdf

See a problem?

It is circular, if AA would stop getting into "the system" they would eventually stop being the "usual" suspect, and the perception of guilt, and heavy handed LE tactics and patrol techniques would subside...if LE tactics and patrol techniques would stop targeting the "usual" suspects, they wouldn't get into the system....how do we apply the change? at the end once you are being confronted by the police when you are suspected of a crime, or changing the AA culture so that they dont get themselves into situations to be confronted by police in the first place....its circular...sadly I dont see this changing..

We are not going to stop addressing the high violent crime within the communities of the minorities...again...cause and affect...why is there so much crime in those neighborhoods...the so called "black on black" crime, which I HATE that term...crime is crime, the color is just indicative of WHERE the crime happened.

I know a lot of people here seem to be anti police, anti law, and that is fine, you have the right to your opinion, and truly I respect it. I know my view is skewed as well as I have been inundated with data and experience as an ex cop working in a major city, and a crim just major....and *gasp* I am a member of the evil empire...white middle class.

But my point is, it isnt RACIST COPS, and it isnt IGNORANT CRIMINAL AAs, it is a very complex issue with layers, and until as a society we have that honest conversation, and strive to change all the layers, NOTHING will change..the police WILL protect themselves and the police WILL enforce the law...it is their job. The more you tie their hands behind their back in these intense violent confrontations, the more cops will die, and that may make you smile, but the vast majority truly try to do their job with integrity, and honor, and want to SERVE the public, not kill them.

Society is railing against the end result, not the beginning..the causal.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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06-12-2014, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2014 11:19 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(05-12-2014 09:15 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(05-12-2014 09:05 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  27 last year. 76 when you include 49 by accident.

Interesting. I looked at another site that listed 100 for 2013. I can't link it from my phone but Google "police killed by year" and its the first link.

107 in 2014 thus far

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

With pictures, and stories.

Line of Duty Deaths: 107
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 24
Drowned: 1
Fire: 1
Gunfire: 43
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 15
Motorcycle accident: 3
Struck by vehicle: 3
Vehicle pursuit: 3
Vehicular assault: 10


By Month
January: 9
February: 4
March: 13
April: 8
May: 18
June: 7
July: 5
August: 6
September: 12
October: 13
November: 12


By State
Alabama: 4
Alaska: 2
Arizona: 2
Arkansas: 1
California: 14
Colorado: 1
Florida: 5
Georgia: 4
Illinois: 1
Indiana: 4
Kansas: 1
Kentucky: 1
Louisiana: 1
Massachusetts: 1
Michigan: 1
Minnesota: 1
Mississippi: 1
Missouri: 2
Montana: 1
Nebraska: 2
Nevada: 2
New Hampshire: 1
New Jersey: 3
New Mexico: 1
New York: 5
North Carolina: 2
Ohio: 1
Oklahoma: 2
Pennsylvania: 3
Puerto Rico: 5
South Carolina: 3
Tennessee: 5
Texas: 11
Tribal Police: 2
U.S. Government: 6
Utah: 1
Virginia: 3
Wisconsin: 1


By Gender
Male: 103
Female: 4


Statistics
Average age: 41
Average tour of duty: 12 years, 10 months


K9 Line of Duty Deaths: 20
viewAutomobile accident: 1
Drowned: 1
Duty related illness: 1
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 5
Heat exhaustion: 4
Stabbed: 2
Struck by vehicle: 4

2013

Line of Duty Deaths: 105
9/11 related illness: 1
Aircraft accident: 1
Automobile accident: 25
Boating accident: 1
Bomb: 1
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 1
Electrocuted: 1
Fall: 4
Fire: 1
Gunfire: 30
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 10
Motorcycle accident: 4
Stabbed: 2
Struck by vehicle: 8
Training accident: 2
Vehicle pursuit: 4
Vehicular assault: 5


By Month
January: 5
February: 12
March: 10
April: 10
May: 11
June: 5
July: 7
August: 8
September: 11
October: 7
November: 6
December: 13


By State
Alabama: 3
Alaska: 2
Arizona: 2
Arkansas: 6
California: 10
Colorado: 1
Florida: 4
Georgia: 3
Illinois: 3
Indiana: 1
Iowa: 1
Kentucky: 2
Louisiana: 4
Maryland: 1
Massachusetts: 1
Michigan: 3
Minnesota: 1
Mississippi: 6
Nevada: 1
New Mexico: 1
New York: 6
North Carolina: 1
Ohio: 1
Oklahoma: 2
Oregon: 1
Pennsylvania: 2
Puerto Rico: 2
South Carolina: 2
Tennessee: 2
Texas: 13
Tribal Police: 1
U.S. Government: 11
Utah: 1
Virginia: 2
Washington: 1
Wisconsin: 1


By Gender
Male: 101
Female: 4


Statistics
Average age: 42
Average tour of duty: 13 years, 9 months


K9 Line of Duty Deaths: 17
viewAccidental: 1
Asphyxiation: 1
Automobile accident: 3
Duty related illness: 1
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 4
Heat exhaustion: 2
Stabbed: 1
Struck by vehicle: 2
Training accident: 1

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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06-12-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 10:44 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Society is railing against the end result, not the beginning..the causal.

I think society has been railing against the causal as you put it. We have an AA president, never thought I’d see that in my lifetime. We rail against income inequality, gender inequality, racial profiling, poverty and a less than stellar educational system.

While it appears that we take two steps forward and one step back I think we are making headway. In my lifetime alone there have been radical changes but yes we still have a long road ahead.

I agree with you that the problems are systemic and the only way to correct them is with education and participation by everyone.

As for LE I am grateful that there are individuals willing to take on the task, I couldn’t do it...I would have shot everyone for traffic violations alone by now.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-12-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 12:31 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 10:44 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Society is railing against the end result, not the beginning..the causal.

I think society has been railing against the causal as you put it. We have an AA president, never thought I’d see that in my lifetime. We rail against income inequality, gender inequality, racial profiling, poverty and a less than stellar educational system.

While it appears that we take two steps forward and one step back I think we are making headway. In my lifetime alone there have been radical changes but yes we still have a long road ahead.

I agree with you that the problems are systemic and the only way to correct them is with education and participation by everyone.

As for LE I am grateful that there are individuals willing to take on the task, I couldn’t do it...I would have shot everyone for traffic violations alone by now.

I agree Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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06-12-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 12:31 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 10:44 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Society is railing against the end result, not the beginning..the causal.

I think society has been railing against the causal as you put it. We have an AA president, never thought I’d see that in my lifetime. We rail against income inequality, gender inequality, racial profiling, poverty and a less than stellar educational system.

While it appears that we take two steps forward and one step back I think we are making headway. In my lifetime alone there have been radical changes but yes we still have a long road ahead.

I agree with you that the problems are systemic and the only way to correct them is with education and participation by everyone.

As for LE I am grateful that there are individuals willing to take on the task, I couldn’t do it...I would have shot everyone for traffic violations alone by now.
I disagree with you. I think the politicians and sub group leaders pay those things lip service and do just enough to make it appear they are doing something. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind. If they would actually help the black communities they would loose their position of power. Meaningful change has to come from inside the sub group. If blacks want to be better they have to get better. It is an uphill climb but until they start walking it will always be in front of them.
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06-12-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 04:25 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 12:31 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I think society has been railing against the causal as you put it. We have an AA president, never thought I’d see that in my lifetime. We rail against income inequality, gender inequality, racial profiling, poverty and a less than stellar educational system.

While it appears that we take two steps forward and one step back I think we are making headway. In my lifetime alone there have been radical changes but yes we still have a long road ahead.

I agree with you that the problems are systemic and the only way to correct them is with education and participation by everyone.

As for LE I am grateful that there are individuals willing to take on the task, I couldn’t do it...I would have shot everyone for traffic violations alone by now.
I disagree with you. I think the politicians and sub group leaders pay those things lip service and do just enough to make it appear they are doing something. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind. If they would actually help the black communities they would loose their position of power. Meaningful change has to come from inside the sub group. If blacks want to be better they have to get better. It is an uphill climb but until they start walking it will always be in front of them.

I’m not sure what point you are disagreeing about.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-12-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 04:29 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-12-2014 04:25 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I disagree with you. I think the politicians and sub group leaders pay those things lip service and do just enough to make it appear they are doing something. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind. If they would actually help the black communities they would loose their position of power. Meaningful change has to come from inside the sub group. If blacks want to be better they have to get better. It is an uphill climb but until they start walking it will always be in front of them.

I’m not sure what point you are disagreeing about.

I am just complaining. One of those knot heads showed up down here not to long ago when a black kid was killed by a cop. Once they found out the cop was black they went away.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24...71428.html
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07-12-2014, 09:30 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 04:25 PM)wazzel Wrote:  I disagree with you. I think the politicians and sub group leaders pay those things lip service and do just enough to make it appear they are doing something. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton come to mind. If they would actually help the black communities they would loose their position of power. Meaningful change has to come from inside the sub group. If blacks want to be better they have to get better. It is an uphill climb but until they start walking it will always be in front of them.

I disagree with you. I think the politicians and sub group leaders pay those things lip service and do just enough to make it appear they are doing something. Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris come to mind. If they would actually help the atheist communities they would loose their position of power. Meaningful change has to come from inside the sub group. If atheists want to be better they have to get better. It is an uphill climb but until they start walking it will always be in front of them.

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08-12-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
(06-12-2014 08:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-12-2014 09:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  50 years later, it's deja vu all over again.

"America preaches integration and practices segregation." - Malcolm

Do you think there is racism evident in this incident?

Yes.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-12-2014, 06:24 AM
RE: “I can’t breathe”
The thing about the broken windows is that cops wouldn't do it if it didn't work! No one wants to waste their time, but if you shake down a man for suspected loitering and he's got a gun? Well you saved a life right there.

I mean the solution for this is pretty simple to me and there is a viral video about some black dude named Charles Patrick saying this.

"If you neighborhood is messed up. Stop messing it up. The rich white man isn't sneaking into your neighborhood at night to piss in the stairwells and spray graffiti everywhere. You all have your video recorders and submit your videos of cops...why don't you use those videos to start recording crime and turn that over to the cops? "

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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