10 Questions for the Christian
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17-04-2013, 12:48 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2013 10:10 AM by kingschosen.)
10 Questions for the Christian
Hello,

The following are questions that have been very useful to me when talking to my religious friends. It is not about disproving religion or god but merely a method I use to determine whether or not the person in question is rational and honest. I've used these questions to great success in my personal life. It's important to be genuinely curious when asking questions, don't try to set up a trap and end with "HA- gotcha", this is no way to talk to a person. It's as arrogant as when a theist attempts to do it to you. Also, keep in mind that no matter what, there is no guarantee you will ever be able to change someone's mind, it is important to accept this otherwise you will only end up frustrated.

1. Do you admit that people have a capacity for believing false things? False religions?
- Would you agree that those who worshiped Thor or Zeus are incorrect?

2. Do you agree that people kill and die over spiritual beliefs?
- Great destruction can result from believing in things that are incorrect.

3. Were you taught what you believe from people or was it a spontaneous attainment of knowledge?
- The knowledge of your beliefs came from humans
- If they argue otherwise, I would suggest ending the conversation. We get frustrated at the lack of reason or rationality of some religious people but we must accept the reason and rationality that there is very little we will ever be able to do to convince these people otherwise. You cannot use reason and rationality to argue with someone who does not use reason or rationality.

4. Would you agree that there are financial motives for you believing?
- If you subscribe to a religion, that institution is guaranteeing a source of income for the rest of your life. Furthermore, if you follow the doctrine and instruct your children in the same manner, they multiply their sources of revenue. They are investing time in you and as a result attain a portion of your earnings and those of your children.

5. Why don't I believe?
- I am fascinated in philosophy, religion, psychology and beliefs, why would god not speak to me when I am so drawn to understanding?
- Why would god choose a method to speak to me when he knows I will not hear or listen?

6. Why so many religions?
- You cannot use religion to explain religion.
- If there weren't a god, wouldn't you expect there to be many religions? Wouldn't it make sense that people would adopt a religion that best works with the cultural norms they are used to from their region?
- The problem I can't get around is that I can't believe something just because I'm told. Because if my parents and community were racist, I would not want to be a racist. Even if everyone in my life told me it was right or good to be a racist/muslim/terrorist, I would not want to believe something unless I can be certain it was correct. So I must figure out what is true so help me understand.
- Why your religion out of the thousands that exist?

7. Why so many biblical contradictions?
- If it was an error in translation, why wouldn't god choose to speak to the translator?

8. Can you pick and choose from the bible?
- Do you agree with this biblical atrocity (rape, genocide, murder, slavery)
- What do you have in common with a Christian who chooses different things from the bible?

9. Do you pick the good and reject the evil from the bible?
- Is this not the basis of morality? Choosing the good over the evil?
- Why be moral by picking the good from one book and ignoring the evil? Can you not do this without a religious doctrine?

10. Given that you accept people can believe false things, that people will kill and die over false things, that these beliefs were taught to you by people, that these people had a financial motive for teaching you these things, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why I don't believe versus you, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why there are so many religions, that you pick and choose from a book yet differ from others that do the same, is it not possible that you are wrong?

If after answering these questions, a person has no doubt about being correct then there is no need to pursue this topic with them. You are trying to reason with someone incapable of reason. It is like trying to speak Japanese to someone who has only ever known English. Save yourself the frustration, learn that there are things that cannot be changed and there are minds that cannot be salvaged, let go.

I did not come up with these questions. They were thought of by Stefan Molyneux of FreedomainRadio.com. I did the best I could to explain the method of asking these questions in text.

Never fear questions, even when they invoke negative emotional reactions. Atheists can learn this as well as theists. We will never advance as a species until we learn to explore and confront subjects that make us uncomfortable to discuss.

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17-04-2013, 01:07 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
Yabut. Why you posting this shit on an atheist forum? Consider

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17-04-2013, 01:37 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2013 10:10 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 12:48 PM)VonBoyce Wrote:  1. Do you admit that people have a capacity for believing false things? False religions?
- Would you agree that those who worshiped Thor or Zeus are incorrect?

Yes.
Yes.

Quote:2. Do you agree that people kill and die over spiritual beliefs?
- Great destruction can result from believing in things that are incorrect.

Yes.
Yes, that's true.

Quote:3. Were you taught what you believe from people or was it a spontaneous attainment of knowledge?

Yes and no.

Quote:- The knowledge of your beliefs came from humans
- If they argue otherwise, I would suggest ending the conversation. We get frustrated at the lack of reason or rationality of some religious people but we must accept the reason and rationality that there is very little we will ever be able to do to convince these people otherwise. You cannot use reason and rationality to argue with someone who does not use reason or rationality.

You're creating unfair parameters for the argument. You're no better than those YEC cretins.

By engaging in a Christian, and asking as Christian these questions, there is REQUIRED acceptance that these people believe in God. This, to atheist, is an irrational belief; however, you cannot judge a person according to YOUR belief's standards; you must judge them according to their belief's standards.


Quote:4. Would you agree that there are financial motives for you believing?
- If you subscribe to a religion, that institution is guaranteeing a source of income for the rest of your life. Furthermore, if you follow the doctrine and instruct your children in the same manner, they multiply their sources of revenue. They are investing time in you and as a result attain a portion of your earnings and those of your children.

Yes, and no. This is a completely, absolutely unfair assessment of churches.

While some churches may be out there for financial gain (looking at you Catholics and WoFers), the vast majority struggle to get by while giving back to the community and to charities.

This isn't me blowing smoke. Look it up.

In fact, my church provided monetary gain to an atheist on this board. No questions asked.

Quote:5. Why don't I believe?
- I am fascinated in philosophy, religion, psychology and beliefs, why would god not speak to me when I am so drawn to understanding?
- Why would god choose a method to speak to me when he knows I will not hear or listen?

Wait... I thought these questions where to Christians. What the heck does this question have to do with anything?

Quote:6. Why so many religions?

Because. Beliefs vary and ultimately cause a split.

Quote:- You cannot use religion to explain religion.

Says who? Who made you the keeper of the rules. The fact remains, that many religions exist because of other religions... it is EXACTLY like evolution.

Quote:- If there weren't a god, wouldn't you expect there to be many religions? Wouldn't it make sense that people would adopt a religion that best works with the cultural norms they are used to from their region?

Loaded question. Fallacy penalty. 5 minutes in the penalty box for you.








k. The answer is no. Whether or not there is or isn't a G(g)od has no bearing on the varying religions. Varying religions can be explained from an evolutionary stand point as well as a supernatural stand point. The reality of a factual G(g)od is 100% irrelevant.

Quote:- The problem I can't get around is that I can't believe something just because I'm told. Because if my parents and community were racist, I would not want to be a racist. Even if everyone in my life told me it was right or good to be a racist/muslim/terrorist, I would not want to believe something unless I can be certain it was correct. So I must figure out what is true so help me understand.

Good for you.

But... what about the people that accept a religion with no prior parental involvement?

dun dun DUN...

Quote:- Why your religion out of the thousands that exist?

Faith.

Quote:7. Why so many biblical contradictions?
- If it was an error in translation, why wouldn't god choose to speak to the translator?

A topic in of itself. But please, point these out. A blanket statement is just like... oh yeah... YEC cretins.

Quote:8. Can you pick and choose from the bible?
- Do you agree with this biblical atrocity (rape, genocide, murder, slavery)
- What do you have in common with a Christian who chooses different things from the bible?

Nope. I don't agree with those atrocities. Some instances are simply there for documentation... others were for Messianic line purpose and purity laws... some where for societal reasons etc etc etc

Quote:9. Do you pick the good and reject the evil from the bible?
- Is this not the basis of morality? Choosing the good over the evil?
- Why be moral by picking the good from one book and ignoring the evil? Can you not do this without a religious doctrine?

Nope. I don't. God created good and evil.

Quote:10. Given that you accept people can believe false things, that people will kill and die over false things, that these beliefs were taught to you by people, that these people had a financial motive for teaching you these things, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why I don't believe versus you, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why there are so many religions, that you pick and choose from a book yet differ from others that do the same, is it not possible that you are wrong?

Of course it's possible that I'm wrong. I'm not omniscient. No one has complete knowledge.

Quote:If after answering these questions, a person has no doubt about being correct then there is no need to pursue this topic with them. You are trying to reason with someone incapable of reason. It is like trying to speak Japanese to someone who has only ever known English. Save yourself the frustration, learn that there are things that cannot be changed and there are minds that cannot be salvaged, let go.

There are several hundred atheists that are going to vehemently disagree with you. There is also, and this is just a single case, a large, 2300 response topic that contradicts this very assertion.

Quote:I did not come up with these questions. They were thought of by Stefan Molyneux of FreedomainRadio.com. I did the best I could to explain the method of asking these questions in text.

Never fear questions, even when they invoke negative emotional reactions. Atheists can learn this as well as theists. We will never advance as a species until we learn to explore and confront subjects that make us uncomfortable to discuss.

Well then... this guy is as close minded and fallacy laced as our lovable

YEC CRETINS

...he's really no different. Just believes the opposite end of the spectrum.

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17-04-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well then... this guy is as close minded and fallacy laced as our lovable

YEC CRETINS

...he's really no different. Just believes the opposite end of the spectrum.

Drive-by idiocy does not discriminate.... Angel

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17-04-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:48 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 01:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well then... this guy is as close minded and fallacy laced as our lovable

YEC CRETINS

...he's really no different. Just believes the opposite end of the spectrum.

Drive-by idiocy does not discriminate.... Angel

This is true.

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17-04-2013, 01:52 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
So.

I answered the questions in a completely satisfactory, concrete, succinct, clear way in about 10 minutes.

Now what?

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17-04-2013, 01:54 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So.

I answered the questions in a completely satisfactory, concrete, succinct, clear way in about 10 minutes.

Now what?

As soon as the other contestants finish up we move on the the physical challenge.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-04-2013, 02:06 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So.

I answered the questions in a completely satisfactory, concrete, succinct, clear way in about 10 minutes.

Now what?

As soon as the other contestants finish up we move on the the physical challenge.

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17-04-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So.

I answered the questions in a completely satisfactory, concrete, succinct, clear way in about 10 minutes.

Now what?

As soon as the other contestants finish up we move on the the physical challenge.

Is that like, more than twenty-six positions involving Gwyneth and gravity? 'Cause enquiring minds really wanna know. Big Grin

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17-04-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well then... this guy is as close minded and fallacy laced as our lovable

YEC CRETINS

...he's really no different. Just believes the opposite end of the spectrum.

I wouldn't go that far, but I suspect that these questions haven't actually been posed by the questioner towards any actual Christians. It's not as if Christians haven't considered these questions, and these questions aren't likely to encourage new thoughts or discovery... much less "win them over". They aren't necessarily bad questions, but they are reverse-engineered from the standpoint that religion is wrong... which is a logically poor position to be in.

Just for one example, question 2 asks a Christian whether people kill or die over beliefs. There's an implication here that religion causes murder, but correlation doesn't prove causation... nor would it really be relevant if it did (and it does, but again, irrelevant). Establishing a country and defending its borders leads people to "kill and die", but no one thinks that's a good reason to live without countries. Providing law and order leads people to "kill and die", but that has never been an effective argument for anarchy. Instead, one might ask why an omnipotent God who hates murder would allow believers to kill in His name...

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