10 Questions for the Christian
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18-04-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
Hey, King.

Nice.

One nit to pick.

It's not LIKE evolution. It IS evolution.

Evolution. It's faaaaaantastic Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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18-04-2013, 08:33 AM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(17-04-2013 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-04-2013 01:52 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So.

I answered the questions in a completely satisfactory, concrete, succinct, clear way in about 10 minutes.

Now what?

As soon as the other contestants finish up we move on the the physical challenge.

500 Quatloos on Kingsy to win in the Arena.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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18-04-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
Let me help you:

You admit that people have a capacity for believing false things? False religions?

Yes. Millions of people adhere to the segments of truth in them, as they do secular humanism or Atheism. Does this mean I can’t know something that is true?

2. Do you agree that people kill and die over spiritual beliefs?
- Great destruction can result from believing in things that are incorrect.

Yes. Will you admit that anti-religious people have been savage also?

3. Were you taught what you believe from people or was it a spontaneous attainment of knowledge?
- The knowledge of your beliefs came from humans
- If they argue otherwise, I would suggest ending the conversation. We get frustrated at the lack of reason or rationality of some religious people but we must accept the reason and rationality that there is very little we will ever be able to do to convince these people otherwise. You cannot use reason and rationality to argue with someone who does not use reason or rationality.

Yes. I believe all my facts as do you from 1) personal experience 2) written testimony 3) oral testimony

4. Would you agree that there are financial motives for you believing?
- If you subscribe to a religion, that institution is guaranteeing a source of income for the rest of your life. Furthermore, if you follow the doctrine and instruct your children in the same manner, they multiply their sources of revenue. They are investing time in you and as a result attain a portion of your earnings and those of your children.

Yes. God promises blessings financial and otherwise to His adherents. So did my employer. Should I cease working?

5. Why don't I believe?
- I am fascinated in philosophy, religion, psychology and beliefs, why would god not speak to me when I am so drawn to understanding?
- Why would god choose a method to speak to me when he knows I will not hear or listen?

Am I omniscient? Do I know WHEN you will believe? Have you never heard the lay phrase, “God’s timing is sound?”

6. Why so many religions?
- You cannot use religion to explain religion.
- If there weren't a god, wouldn't you expect there to be many religions? Wouldn't it make sense that people would adopt a religion that best works with the cultural norms they are used to from their region?
- The problem I can't get around is that I can't believe something just because I'm told. Because if my parents and community were racist, I would not want to be a racist. Even if everyone in my life told me it was right or good to be a racist/muslim/terrorist, I would not want to believe something unless I can be certain it was correct. So I must figure out what is true so help me understand.
- Why your religion out of the thousands that exist?

Isn’t thousands gilding the lily some? There are currently about 12 significant texts purporting to be the Word of God with numerous, sane adherents. Are you really unaware that the Bible is there to be read, loved and enjoyed?

7. Why so many biblical contradictions?
- If it was an error in translation, why wouldn't god choose to speak to the translator?

Have you never read the Babel account and Peter’s comments and Paul’s as to why people are separated by language? Do you think it’s worth researching pro-contradiction and anti-contradiction sides both? I always look at both sides... do you? Are you honest like me and dissatisfied until you have disproved (or proved) every single contradicition presented?

8. Can you pick and choose from the bible?
- Do you agree with this biblical atrocity (rape, genocide, murder, slavery)
- What do you have in common with a Christian who chooses different things from the bible?

No. It’s all real. Why should rape and murder shock me? Hell is real. I do know the Bible punishments and prohibitions for slavery. Do you think it was an accident that most American and British abolitionists were devout Christians?

9. Do you pick the good and reject the evil from the bible?
- Is this not the basis of morality? Choosing the good over the evil?
- Why be moral by picking the good from one book and ignoring the evil? Can you not do this without a religious doctrine?

No. It’s all real.

10. Given that you accept people can believe false things, that people will kill and die over false things, that these beliefs were taught to you by people, that these people had a financial motive for teaching you these things, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why I don't believe versus you, that there is no satisfactory answer as to why there are so many religions, that you pick and choose from a book yet differ from others that do the same, is it not possible that you are wrong?

It is possible, sure. Just not plausible. Me using YOU for deniability is as foolish as me jumping off the Empire State Building because you did, and mom warned me off that a long time ago. Just because you’re a truth seeker who could become a Christian ten years from now doesn’t mean I’ll waste the precious time I have.

Thanks!
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18-04-2013, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2013 10:08 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
Hey guys,

Really interesting answers! I wasn't expecting the tone received but as I posted it in this section not specifically for a Christian to answer but rather in hopes of helping atheists in more volatile environments discuss these things with believers around them. Probably my fault, I didn't spend a lot of time looking for the proper place or picking the appropriate title. No worries though and no hard feelings, I can understand how threatening and uncomfortable it would be to see those questions as a believer, I'm new to this community so I didn't know what I was getting in to. Personally, I don't devote precious time to arguing or trying win internet arguments.

Have a good day!

Alex

REMOVED THE ADVERTISING SPAM.
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18-04-2013, 01:13 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
It's a double drive-by. Dodgy

I for one do not appreciate preaching from either side. This is a forum, not a blog. Got something to say, stick around and discuss it.

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18-04-2013, 01:57 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2013 10:08 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(18-04-2013 12:49 PM)VonBoyce Wrote:  Hey guys,

Really interesting answers! I wasn't expecting the tone received but as I posted it in this section not specifically for a Christian to answer but rather in hopes of helping atheists in more volatile environments discuss these things with believers around them. Probably my fault, I didn't spend a lot of time looking for the proper place or picking the appropriate title. No worries though and no hard feelings, I can understand how threatening and uncomfortable it would be to see those questions as a believer, I'm new to this community so I didn't know what I was getting in to. Personally, I don't devote precious time to arguing or trying win internet arguments.

Have a good day!

Alex

Um, Alex, I didn't find your questions (the ones you copied) imposing or threatening, I found them inane. For example, do you adhere to the same standard in all researches? "I'm a truth seeker but I don't understand Calculus yet so it can't be real. How can you say it's real?"
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22-04-2013, 12:05 PM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
1) Of Course I believe that people can believe in false things. That was what I believe the entire reformation is (I'm Catholic by the Way) If everyone was incapable of false belief then everyone would be Catholic.

2) As a Catholic we praise and venerate Martyrs, so I definitely believe people die for things. Also I don't see dying for something you believe in to be wrong. In fact I see it as something romantic and beautiful. And I am not so naive to believe that people can kill for their faith. I have read the old testament. Again I don't believe there is anything inherently wrong about killing someone. There are certain times when it is "okay" to kill someone. Of course it becomes very easy to abuse.

3) Yes I was taught by my parents, although to my defense I do not maintain a very strong spiritual life. However, it was my parents who taught me many things before I was able to learn myself.

4) I believe whole heartily in the concept of giving money to my church. Although I haven't had a steady job yet so I get to be a bit stingy in this regard. When I do get a proper job I'm going full Old Testament and intend on taking up the practice of tithing. And KC I do take a little bit of an offense that you think that the Catholic Church is a bunch of money grubbers. As far as I know priests live comfortably but not extravagantly. his is one of the reasons against married priests. My professor knows a married priest and he has to work as a mailman to make ends meet. When I give to my church I figure some money should be given to the priest, who I consider a white collar workerBig Grin , some to the rest of the Hierarchy, some to Charity and some to making the church look good.

5) Don't know

6) In terms of theology it would come from the effects of original sin, which in secular terms would be based upon the concept that we do what we like and don't do what we don't like. When Martin Luther showed people that you could do that (although I do believe he was wrong) everyone just went their own way. Also there is the concept of isolation. That, for instance a Muslim, has never experienced the full revelation of God and as such, could not be a christian. Although he would still be bound by natural law.

7) I don't necessarily see them as contradictions. My biblical Literature professor can probably debunk most of them at least to a reasonable degree. The church teaches that the original authors were in fact inspired but translators and copyists are not. This has been catholic teaching since St Augustine at least. Where stuff has been added, it is still a debate whether they were inspired or not.

8) In general Catholics are supposed to take the Bible in its entirety. However there are certain things which can be effectively ignored. This is not a modern concept. Even if one reads the Gospel of Matthew, you will find Jesus saying that Moses allowed divorce because of the stubbornness of the Jews. So certain laws are considered defunct, some are supposed to be somewhat metaphorical like the new ten commandments. The Catholic Church puts the interpretation under Tradition. There are two infallible sources of revelation for the Catholic Church; Scripture and the Tradition of the Apostles. Essentially the Church states that we interpret the bible this way because this is what the Apostles did.

Also as a side note, a lot of the Bible is God telling the Jews to do stuff and them not listening and then going off and having an orgy.

9) Virtually the same question

10) As everyone else has said of course its possible that I'm wrong. I just don't think its likely.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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23-04-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
(18-04-2013 01:13 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  It's a double drive-by. Dodgy

I for one do not appreciate preaching from either side. This is a forum, not a blog. Got something to say, stick around and discuss it.

I fixed it, Johnny.

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23-04-2013, 01:14 PM
 
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
nevermind.
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23-04-2013, 01:16 PM
 
RE: 10 Questions for the Christian
I never knew there were so many theists lurking around in this forum.

'magin that.
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