10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
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19-01-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 11:25 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The more I read about Mormonism, the more amazed I am anyone finds this shit remotely believable.

I joined at 17 msbb, I was agnostic deist. The appeal to me was they lived it. As opposed to just saying sorry to a priest on Sundays. ... Mid 90s, the Internet was up and running but there wasn't a lot of LDS info. ... They don't start telling you the crazy shit until you're in and committed. It gets sort of drip fed. I did a lot of reading myself at the time, as branch clerk (my calling) I had access to a lot of literature at once and found out the more wild stuff all at once, I promptly left because of it.

Hey Dark Phoenix, with what I have just said to msbb in mind, I'm glad you're sharing your experiences on here in a constructive way. Other people looking for answers like I was as a teenager may stumble across this and get a fuller picture of LDS and make more informed decisions. ... From a selfish perspective I got something out of mak posting on here and do believe there is indeed a more progressive element in LDS but I still hold more than a strong suspicion that not only is it not the majority but a very small minority. Great posts, keep up the good work! I really enjoy reading them! Thumbsup

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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19-01-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 04:24 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 11:25 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  The more I read about Mormonism, the more amazed I am anyone finds this shit remotely believable.

I joined at 17 msbb, I was agnostic deist. The appeal to me was they lived it. As opposed to just saying sorry to a priest on Sundays. ... Mid 90s, the Internet was up and running but there wasn't a lot of LDS info. ... They don't start telling you the crazy shit until you're in and committed. It gets sort of drip fed. I did a lot of reading myself at the time, as branch clerk (my calling) I had access to a lot of literature at once and found out the more wild stuff all at once, I promptly left because of it.

Hey Dark Phoenix, with what I have just said to msbb in mind, I'm glad you're sharing your experiences on here in a constructive way. Other people looking for answers like I was as a teenager may stumble across this and get a fuller picture of LDS and make more informed decisions. ... From a selfish perspective I got something out of mak posting on here and do believe there is indeed a more progressive element in LDS but I still hold more than a strong suspicion that not only is it not the majority but a very small minority. Great posts, keep up the good work! I really enjoy reading them! Thumbsup

I totally understand. I've always maintained if more Catholics understood Catholicism they'd leave it. I was drawn to the ritual side of things. Smile

The Mormons certainly don't have a corner on the crazy market alone. Big Grin


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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19-01-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 04:37 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 04:24 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  I joined at 17 msbb, I was agnostic deist. The appeal to me was they lived it. As opposed to just saying sorry to a priest on Sundays. ... Mid 90s, the Internet was up and running but there wasn't a lot of LDS info. ... They don't start telling you the crazy shit until you're in and committed. It gets sort of drip fed. I did a lot of reading myself at the time, as branch clerk (my calling) I had access to a lot of literature at once and found out the more wild stuff all at once, I promptly left because of it.

Hey Dark Phoenix, with what I have just said to msbb in mind, I'm glad you're sharing your experiences on here in a constructive way. Other people looking for answers like I was as a teenager may stumble across this and get a fuller picture of LDS and make more informed decisions. ... From a selfish perspective I got something out of mak posting on here and do believe there is indeed a more progressive element in LDS but I still hold more than a strong suspicion that not only is it not the majority but a very small minority. Great posts, keep up the good work! I really enjoy reading them! Thumbsup

I totally understand. I've always maintained if more Catholics understood Catholicism they'd leave it. I was drawn to the ritual side of things. Smile

The Mormons certainly don't have a corner on the crazy market alone. Big Grin

Couldn't agree more! I looked in to Catholicism too. I looked at a few religions and denominations as a young lad before 'joining' LDS. Some I dismissed easily but it came down to LDS or Catholicism before I made my decision. ... When I left, I was atheist and very glad to have experienced the crazy! There's no teacher like experience after all is there? Big Grin

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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19-01-2014, 05:03 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
I thought I might sbare this on here. It seems fairly relevant.
http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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19-01-2014, 10:34 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2014 03:13 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(18-01-2014 10:14 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. taboos are from Lucifer not from God and not from His Church.

I know I already said this "...is easily one of the dumbest fucking things you have ever posted...", but I said no more because I didn't want to spoil my weekend. Now I'm back at work and so I can give this a better explanation.


Taboo
-A social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.


Taboos are social, they come from and are reinforced by society; and society is made up of people. All of your taboos are man made Alla. How do I know this? Because all the information your taboos are built upon comes from information supplied to you by other humans. Some of it comes from books you believe to be holy, but those books are the works of men; even if they claim to be divinely inspired or taking dictation from angels, the books are still the works of fallible men. The religions built around them were maintained, taught, and passed down by men. All of the social and cultural information you use to derive what is and is not taboo comes from other humans; not Satan, and certainly not God. Your taboos come from your peers, your family, your teachers, your culture, and yes even your Church; they are all the source of your taboos. Get the fuck over it and stop blaming an imaginary bogeyman for the bullshit humans make up. Drinking Beverage

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19-01-2014, 10:47 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 03:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 11:39 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Alla - could you maybe talk to us awhile and leave the preaching alone?

Or is the scripture-speak the only interest you have here?

This is why I brought up proselytizing awhile back. Maybe if you could just converse a little; possibly avoid the topics where it's only scripture, dogma and your devotion to your religious life(?) Because this IS really all you seem to talk about. And while you and I have made good strides which is good - I just feel compelled to suggest that you stop (for awhile) this constant preaching. Surely you must realize that this barrage of scripture-speak is abrasive to non-believers?

This is an atheist forum and if all you do is respond to religious threads and only continue to lather us with God-this and Jesus-that --- what do you think will happen? People don't want to be preached to all the time, Alla. Crap even Christians don't want to be preached at all the time. There's more to this forum than just religious arguments. There are actual Real and decent people here that you alienate day after day.

Imagine a parade is going past you with interesting people, ideals, subjects, topics, personal achievements or broken hearts, diet plans and recipes, politics and current events........the colors, the excitement, the music and noise; the laughter, jokes and camaraderie. The Serious folk, the clowns, the book discussions, the investigation of science........the movie suggestions, the rants, the good times and bad times............ a virtual parade of interest......
ok?

But you? You seem just on the sidewalk throwing rumpled up pages ripped from a bible at this huge event that's passing you by (??)
Shocking

It just doesn't seem very effective does it?



And - if you're ONLY here to make converts - then just be honest and say so.
Right now you just appear a person who's going to barf her religion wanted or unwanted on us day after day after day regardless of people react to you.

it's pretty harsh.


And honestly - I am trying to be helpful. You and I had disagreed and now we're past that. So please take this message in the way it is intended.
I mean this in kindness.
Good point and good advice. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't follow it.
Thank you, WitchSabrina.Smile



Watching your patience with people - even me - changed my attitude towards you, Alla. I got to thinking that maybe if SO much of what you say (and type) isn't making ANY sense to me whatsoever - well, you likely might feel the same way.

I don't think you mean any harm. I think you're pretty naive but I don't think you deserve my nastiness and I'm sorry I was nasty to you. You're probably just doing the best you can here or anywhere. And yanno what? Who the fuck am I to tell you what you should believe? We each have to live our lives the best we can.

And I hope we keep talking. There's probably hundreds of questions we won't be able to answer for one another -- but that's just ok too. Thanks for listening.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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20-01-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 10:47 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 03:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  Good point and good advice. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't follow it.
Thank you, WitchSabrina.Smile



Watching your patience with people - even me - changed my attitude towards you, Alla. I got to thinking that maybe if SO much of what you say (and type) isn't making ANY sense to me whatsoever - well, you likely might feel the same way.

I don't think you mean any harm. I think you're pretty naive but I don't think you deserve my nastiness and I'm sorry I was nasty to you. You're probably just doing the best you can here or anywhere. And yanno what? Who the fuck am I to tell you what you should believe? We each have to live our lives the best we can.

And I hope we keep talking. There's probably hundreds of questions we won't be able to answer for one another -- but that's just ok too. Thanks for listening.
thanks.
So, what do you like to talk about the most? and what threads are the best on this forum that we can talk about other interesting things?

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20-01-2014, 06:11 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(20-01-2014 05:24 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 10:47 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Watching your patience with people - even me - changed my attitude towards you, Alla. I got to thinking that maybe if SO much of what you say (and type) isn't making ANY sense to me whatsoever - well, you likely might feel the same way.

I don't think you mean any harm. I think you're pretty naive but I don't think you deserve my nastiness and I'm sorry I was nasty to you. You're probably just doing the best you can here or anywhere. And yanno what? Who the fuck am I to tell you what you should believe? We each have to live our lives the best we can.

And I hope we keep talking. There's probably hundreds of questions we won't be able to answer for one another -- but that's just ok too. Thanks for listening.
thanks.
So, what do you like to talk about the most? and what threads are the best on this forum that we can talk about other interesting things?


There's an introduction thread Alla that would provide the chance for you to tell us more about yourself. We've already kinda trekked off the OP in this thread. LOL

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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21-01-2014, 01:55 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
Quote: I said:"I wish it was true" that you feel happier but not because you left the Church. I wish it was the true that you actually continually feel more content and happy as you go along. I believe that your desire to criticize Church and Mormonism is evidence that you have some bitterness which can not bring much happiness.

Yet again, you show your unwillingness to accept my experience as being honest. It doesn't seem to matter to you how many times I tell you that I am happier today, you are simply unwilling to believe it. Since it does not match your world view, you discard it as being automatically false. You are, by definition, engaged in the exact mental filter that I have criticized so often. Your faith, and the things taught to you by your church, cause you to refuse to accept anything that contradicts those beliefs. In a way, you are a living example of the taboo, which you do not seem to understand at all, even when the definition is given to you.

Quote:Not at all. I don't know your mind and heart. But I know how joy of hate feels. That's all I said.

Honestly, I don't care if it makes you, or has made you, feel better to criticize something for the sole purpose of feeling better. I find it shallow and empty as a pursuit. As I have already said, I am engaged in something entirely different.

Don't expect me not to notice that by saying that you "know what it is like", you make the assumption that your experience matches my own. This is the original condescension that I took issue with, and that I still do.

Quote: You are my brother because we are children of the same covenant. And because we have the same Father.

I was absolutely clear when I told you not to say this again. The first time, I can excuse you for being ignorant of what offends me, but now I will not be so understanding. This is the second time you have crossed this line, and I now understand that you have no interest whatsoever in being polite or considerate. You wish to be respected for your faith, yet you fail to show me respect when I ask for it, and then do so again, knowing full well that it was offensive to me.

We are in no sense family, not even in the ridiculous non-existent realm of the spiritual. You are not my sister, and we do not share the same father. In fact, you happen to represent a great many ideas that I consider to be immoral, harmful, and factually false, which by definition, makes them evil and worth attacking. You are engaged in a conversation with your enemy, even if you are unable to see that.

Quote:"Book of Mormon is true because my mom knows this" is not a testimony I was talking about. Borrowed testimony is like borrowed light. If you don't have your own light what are you going to do when there is no one from whom you can borrow it?

I don't think there is a single living person who has anything better than "borrowed light", as you so tediously put it. Faith is by definition lacking in actual evidence. To say that "I know", as the members so often do even when they are mere children, is nothing more than a socially acceptable lie. Even those with "strong personal testimonies" merely believe. They do not know for certain. The church teaches the ridiculous idea that through practicing faith, one can attain actual knowledge. As anyone with an education in modern science can tell you, faith is the worst possible means of learning what is true.

I had the best testimony that one can have. I believed it because I had faith in the doctrine, and also in my family. You wouldn't so easily dismiss that, as you have tried to do, if it were an active member writing in my place. I find your discrimination hypocritical.

Quote:To criticize is action. To criticize because it makes you feel better is action.

Here you betray your lack of understanding the term "action". You missed my entire point. As a side benefit for me, you managed to simultaneously prove my earlier point, by admitting that you do, in fact, think I criticize only in order to relieve my supposed "bitterness". You manage a dazzling marriage of ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity. It's quite breathtaking when you take the time to go through it all.

Quote:You know that moral agency is a gift from God and only Lucifer wants to take it from us, not God and not Church.

Here you go telling me what I "know" again. For your third language, you manage an incredible amount of intellectual dishonesty. It really is pathetic to need to resort to putting words in other's mouths all the time.

(18-01-2014 09:15 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  If you try anything like those three examples again, I will no longer speak with you.

I made my position clear earlier. You have openly trodden upon my request for consideration, even when you know exactly what you were doing. I will have nothing more to do with you. Be on your way.

This discussion is at it's end.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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21-01-2014, 02:01 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(19-01-2014 04:24 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Hey Dark Phoenix, with what I have just said to msbb in mind, I'm glad you're sharing your experiences on here in a constructive way. Other people looking for answers like I was as a teenager may stumble across this and get a fuller picture of LDS and make more informed decisions. ... From a selfish perspective I got something out of mak posting on here and do believe there is indeed a more progressive element in LDS but I still hold more than a strong suspicion that not only is it not the majority but a very small minority. Great posts, keep up the good work! I really enjoy reading them! Thumbsup

Thank for your constant encouragement and your willingness to back me up to Maklelan even before you knew what I would say on my own behalf. It put a welcome smile on my face to see you agree with my experience.

It is my desire to be the voice of explanation that I wish I had access to when I was searching the internet for answers about my faith. I know I can't possibly be alone, since the internet is only becoming more commonplace as time passes. There must be others, like I was, who are looking for answers. Perhaps I can do them the favor of pioneering in some small way.

As far as this "progressive element" within the church, I find it shallow and deceptive. Picking and choosing one's beliefs from a doctrine that clearly says not to do that, is by definition, dishonest and ridiculous. I can attack them for the same reasons, and with the same arguments, as I attack religious moderation everywhere else.

Thanks again.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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