10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
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23-01-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
weekendskp, one does not know where to begin. Something like 20% of the american public believes the sun revolves around the earth. It is difficult sometimes to deal with the level of stupidity in the world. I am warned by one daughter-in-law to not be elitist. I agree but sometimes have problems not being so.
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23-01-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 02:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Fine. Then at least you can understand why
It really doesn't matter to us why you belong to church
Of course, I do understand this. That is why I don't even try to share these reasons. Smile

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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23-01-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 03:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 02:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Fine. Then at least you can understand why
It really doesn't matter to us why you belong to church
Of course, I do understand this. That is why I don't even try to share these reasons. Smile


Alla I can appreciate how you might feel sharing certain beliefs or aspects of your faith would seem pointless here ; you *could* try to appreciate what people try to convey to you - ie their perspective of what you say.
Many posts made to you should be generating questions for you.

In those questions and answeres shared is the meeting of minds you seem to seek.

For if you're not seeking SOME sort of meeting of minds - you've no reason really to be here - have you?

cheers

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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23-01-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 03:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 02:41 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Fine. Then at least you can understand why
It really doesn't matter to us why you belong to church
Of course, I do understand this. That is why I don't even try to share these reasons. Smile

Then why are you here? And please elaborate.

...
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23-01-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 03:43 PM)Alla Wrote:  Of course, I do understand this. That is why I don't even try to share these reasons. Smile

Then why are you here? And please elaborate.
There is plenty of information on this forum. I am learning all this new information.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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23-01-2014, 04:24 PM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2014 04:29 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 03:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Then why are you here? And please elaborate.
There is plenty of information on this forum. I am learning all this new information.

I like and appreciate this answer. I honestly do, but find it perplexing as you seem to not be willing to truly consider the things we say. Rather you seem to immediately hold fast to, and defend your position, despite the "information" presented on this forum, and without seeming to truly consider it.

Perhaps you consider it later, in your own time. I don’t know. SabrinaWitch seems to like you, so maybe she’s read replies you’ve written in which you were being more open, than the ones I have read. I don’t know though.

By the way, “I don’t know” is an appropriate response to some questions. I’ve seen you use it once, and really appreciated that you did, rather than simply making up a response right on the spot. And it’s less frustrating when you simply say “I don’t know” to something, than to respond with a vague answer, that really means nothing, in an attempt to at least respond. So to see you being presented with difficult information about your Church’s scriptures, or history, and then defend it and make excuses for it, rather than simply saying, “I don’t know”, or “let me look into that more” is really frustrating, because I don’t see that as trying to learn new information, but unlike what you just said looks more like trying to ignore and deny new information. Those both are highly valued responses in this community, by the way,(“I don’t know”, and “let me look into that more”) when faced with hard questions. Fluff, confusing, vague answers are not so much.

That is why I ask why you are here, because I don’t know what you are doing, if you are not simply arguing for the sake of arguing and found a place to do that, or are trying to convert us. That seems the only reason for a theist to be here if they are not going to actually consider and process the “new information” as you call it. It does not mean you must agree with that “new information”, but at least consider it honestly, and show that in your responses.

That is why I ask, “why are you here”.

...
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23-01-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I don’t know. SabrinaWitch seems to like you, so maybe she’s read replies you’ve written in which you were being more open, than the ones I have read. I don’t know though.

When Alla arrived I *read* her as a hard-headed theist and I was straight-out unkind to her. But she stayed on and remained patient with me and with others. Felt like I'd misjudged her. Not sure she's been *open* per say; she remains dedicated to her religion. Which - really - is and should be fine. But I was hoping if she was stuck in her religion and someone like me who rejects religion - that we could find a middle ground and ability to discuss/or at the least be respectful towards each other. I dunno. We're just sort of a project at this point.Blink LOL.
What I hope for Alla is that if she stays here - theist or not- that she works at becoming a part of the forum and not here only to testify and proselytize.

But in all honesty since she's not be allowed to just *be* since her first day.... I don't know if she ever gets a chance to just relax and visit a bit with folks here. She remains on the defense because that's where we put her. KC is a theist and we all like him just fine. But he talks about other things than just his religion. Time will tell about Alla and how she will do here. I'ts not for me to say.

I felt bad for being shitty to her. Apologized and I think she, like anyone else, deserves a chance. Besides who am I to tell Alla what to believe or what to think? I like that she was patient - even kind - in the face of such adversity.
I'm weird like that.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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23-01-2014, 09:53 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 12:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-01-2014 05:35 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Why are you here?

I am here that I may learn more parts of the truth.

So tell us about the Danites. The Avenging Angels. K?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-01-2014, 12:59 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  SabrinaWitch seems to like you, so maybe she’s read replies you’ve written in which you were being more open, than the ones I have read. I don’t know though.
SabrinaWithch is nice to me because she is VERY good person and she is NOT holding herself to act as such. So, it is not because "may be" of some of my openness.

(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  By the way, “I don’t know” is an appropriate response to some questions. I’ve seen you use it once, and really appreciated that you did, rather than simply making up a response right on the spot. And it’s less frustrating when you simply say “I don’t know” to something, than to respond with a vague answer, that really means nothing, in an attempt to at least respond. So to see you being presented with difficult information about your Church’s scriptures, or history, and then defend it and make excuses for it, rather than simply saying, “I don’t know”, or “let me look into that more” is really frustrating, because I don’t see that as trying to learn new information, but unlike what you just said looks more like trying to ignore and deny new information. Those both are highly valued responses in this community, by the way,(“I don’t know”, and “let me look into that more”) when faced with hard questions. Fluff, confusing, vague answers are not so much.
I understand your point and I agree with it. When I don't know I say that I don't know. When I believe I say that I believe. And when I say that God of the Bible is not racist it is because I truly don't see that He is racist and I am trying to explain why I don't see it. Nobody has to agree with me.

(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  That is why I ask why you are here, because I don’t know what you are doing, if you are not simply arguing for the sake of arguing and found a place to do that, or are trying to convert us. That seems the only reason for a theist to be here if they are not going to actually consider and process the “new information” as you call it. It does not mean you must agree with that “new information”, but at least consider it honestly, and show that in your responses.

That is why I ask, “why are you here”.
Again I am learning here lots of new information. For example, about science and evolution. I get some info here and then it inspires me to learn more from different sources(not religious sources).
Also when I see questions from atheists to theists I like to answer them. I also like to discuss arguments of atheists about Bible and some concepts. By doing it I am also learning. I am learning different positions of atheists. It is very interesting to me. And I agree with some of those positions.
Atheists are demonized by many theists. And atheists are misunderstood and misrepresented by theists. I don't like it. It is not right. It is evil to do so.
On many theist forums that I have been I was the only defender of every atheist among theists. They(theists) hate me for this and don't understand me.
I am known on atheism.ru site and all atheists like me. In the beginning it was rough but later we became virtual friends.
There is another Russian atheist site where atheists like me.
And all this because I like them first.
Yes, I like to talk about my religion but not for arguing sake or for converting sake. I just want more people to know more truthful information about LDS Church.
LDS Church is also demonized and misrepresented.

English is not my native language.
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25-01-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: 10 Reasons Why I Rejected Mormonism, and So Should You
This is a good response, and I really do appreciate that you didn't simply say some vague response like you've been prone to do. I don't mean that as a backhanded compliment either. I really do appreciate that you actually, articulately, honestly answered my question.

(25-01-2014 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  SabrinaWitch seems to like you, so maybe she’s read replies you’ve written in which you were being more open, than the ones I have read. I don’t know though.
SabrinaWithch is nice to me because she is VERY good person and she is NOT holding herself to act as such. So, it is not because "may be" of some of my openness.
I'm not really sure what you are saying here, but I think that's because of a language barrier. No need for you to elaborate, I think I got the gist of it enough.

By the way, I need to appologize to WitchSabrina for spelling her name backwards...oops...

(25-01-2014 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  That is why I ask why you are here, because I don’t know what you are doing, if you are not simply arguing for the sake of arguing and found a place to do that, or are trying to convert us. That seems the only reason for a theist to be here if they are not going to actually consider and process the “new information” as you call it. It does not mean you must agree with that “new information”, but at least consider it honestly, and show that in your responses.

That is why I ask, “why are you here”.
Again I am learning here lots of new information. For example, about science and evolution. I get some info here and then it inspires me to learn more from different sources(not religious sources).
Also when I see questions from atheists to theists I like to answer them. I also like to discuss arguments of atheists about Bible and some concepts. By doing it I am also learning. I am learning different positions of atheists. It is very interesting to me. And I agree with some of those positions.
Atheists are demonized by many theists. And atheists are misunderstood and misrepresented by theists. I don't like it. It is not right. It is evil to do so.
On many theist forums that I have been I was the only defender of every atheist among theists. They(theists) hate me for this and don't understand me.
I am known on atheism.ru site and all atheists like me. In the beginning it was rough but later we became virtual friends.
There is another Russian atheist site where atheists like me.
And all this because I like them first.
Yes, I like to talk about my religion but not for arguing sake or for converting sake. I just want more people to know more truthful information about LDS Church.
LDS Church is also demonized and misrepresented.
I moved this part out of order, because I want to focus on what you said in the middle part. But I did want to comment on what you wrote here. I am very glad you said this. To clarify, what has been a very frustrating part of communicating with you, not just for myself, but seemingly for others as well, is that, in this case, I asked a simple question, "why are you here". And this response is exactly what I wanted to know. Regardless of whether I agree with your reasons or if I do not. That doesn't matter as much as giving an honest answer.

But you tend to say a lot of fluff, vague answers, and we have to ask you over and over, and repeatedly in different ways, to get your actual answer. If you could, please, from now on answer questions more in this way, that you did here, it would be greatly appreciated, because then, that's how we could actually have a dialogue, and get to know each other's thoughts, and perhaps learn from each other. So this is a very good response, and I am happy you gave it. I just hope you respond clearer, and more honestly like this in the future.

(25-01-2014 12:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 04:24 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  By the way, “I don’t know” is an appropriate response to some questions. I’ve seen you use it once, and really appreciated that you did, rather than simply making up a response right on the spot. And it’s less frustrating when you simply say “I don’t know” to something, than to respond with a vague answer, that really means nothing, in an attempt to at least respond. So to see you being presented with difficult information about your Church’s scriptures, or history, and then defend it and make excuses for it, rather than simply saying, “I don’t know”, or “let me look into that more” is really frustrating, because I don’t see that as trying to learn new information, but unlike what you just said looks more like trying to ignore and deny new information. Those both are highly valued responses in this community, by the way,(“I don’t know”, and “let me look into that more”) when faced with hard questions. Fluff, confusing, vague answers are not so much.
I understand your point and I agree with it. When I don't know I say that I don't know. When I believe I say that I believe. And when I say that God of the Bible is not racist it is because I truly don't see that He is racist and I am trying to explain why I don't see it. Nobody has to agree with me.
Now this is the part that frustrates me a bit still. I've only seen you reply "I don't know" once. To be fair to you though, I haven't read every post you've made, but still, I've only seen it once, and I've seen you often reply in ways that I have a hard time believing make sense even to you. You would probably disagree with that, and that's okay for you to.

Why you say you don't see the "God" of The Book of Mormon as being racist, or any of the doctrines and/or past practices and beliefs of the LDS church as racist or bigoted, that is fine for you to believe and to say. I disagree with it, but that's okay, we are going to disagree on a lot of things where it comes to religion. But you say you are trying to explain why you do not see it as racist, but you made no actual explanation at all.

I directly put the most blatantly racist, and bigoted text, straight from your scriptures right in front of you, and your explanation for why it was not racist was, "I don't see it as racist". That's not really an explanation at all. That's just you saying you don't see anything wrong with it.

I'll give you a analogy. If Hitler explained, why he wanted to slaughter and kill all the mentally and developmentally disabled people in society, by saying he was attempting to create a pure perfect race, and I commented on how evil and horrific that was. Then if someone else said, "I don't see anything horrific about that. That seems fine to me". First of all, they did not explain why that is not horrific, they just claimed it was not. And secondly, if they did not see the evil and horror in that act, then I would strongly have to question that persons own morals if they see nothing horrific in that act or statement.

That's the problem I have when you respond to those racist text by simply saying "I don't see anything racist there". How could you not? You do not explain why you don't. I have no expectation that you read one or two...or thirty...difficult text in your scripture, and then abandon the LDS church. But I do expect an honest person, and thoughtful and caring person, to at least struggle with at least that portion of it and to see what is difficult there. It's the fact that you don't even see what is problematic there, and don't struggle with it for even a second, that's what bothers me.

...
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