10% is a lot of dough.
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16-02-2013, 08:51 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
Damn. I guess so. I had some filthy rich relatives that gave like fifty cents a week, haha.

I wish I was less honest and had no moral compass, I'd start a church...

But holy shit, 20%? At least I'm saving money by being an atheist.
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16-02-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
I used to tithe when I was a Christian... the whole 10%. It's a lot of money.

The way to rationalize such huge donations is by thinking that God "gave" you that money, therefore you "owe" Him. But seriously, we atheists also make money, so clearly it either isn't from God or God will give you money no matter what you do with it, so it's only a gift in the way that your exhaled breath is a gift of CO2 for nearby trees. The other way to rationalize it is to say to yourself that God will give you back everything that you give him with interest, but that's equally silly. If you have an income, of course you're going to make that money back in your next paycheck -- but does any Christian get regular windfalls greater than 10% of their paycheck? Of course not. Christians don't make any more money than non-Christians, and while there may be some financial gain to being a Christian (such as networking) there's clearly no supernatural financial gifts to Christians.

If God needed money, He could produce it Himself. In fact, God would be a lot more believable if churches paid for people to attend, with the money for it coming from God. Why doesn't that happen? Why would pastors need to draw wages from their attendants? And if believers actually believe that God can make these "magic windfall returns" happen, why don't they simply pray that God will get money equal to 10% of their income by that supernatural device instead?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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16-02-2013, 09:20 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
I agree.

Strangely the logic of verses like "he owns the cattle on a thousand hills" therefore you are giving what is already his back, somehow seems to make sense when you're in the depth of it.

And why DOES God need all this human money??? Surely his awesome power is not limited by human financial constraints. I mean, when there is a recession and the dollar value decreases, does that mean that Gods almighty power decreases because of the lost income??
(16-02-2013 08:59 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I used to tithe when I was a Christian... the whole 10%. It's a lot of money.

The way to rationalize such huge donations is by thinking that God "gave" you that money, therefore you "owe" Him. But seriously, we atheists also make money, so clearly it either isn't from God or God will give you money no matter what you do with it, so it's only a gift in the way that your exhaled breath is a gift of CO2 for nearby trees. The other way to rationalize it is to say to yourself that God will give you back everything that you give him with interest, but that's equally silly. If you have an income, of course you're going to make that money back in your next paycheck -- but does any Christian get regular windfalls greater than 10% of their paycheck? Of course not. Christians don't make any more money than non-Christians, and while there may be some financial gain to being a Christian (such as networking) there's clearly no supernatural financial gifts to Christians.

If God needed money, He could produce it Himself. In fact, God would be a lot more believable if churches paid for people to attend, with the money for it coming from God. Why doesn't that happen? Why would pastors need to draw wages from their attendants? And if believers actually believe that God can make these "magic windfall returns" happen, why don't they simply pray that God will get money equal to 10% of their income by that supernatural device instead?
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16-02-2013, 10:39 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
Collecting money to wave off bad things that could happen if you don't pay it... isn't that extortion?

Obama promised you change. Reach in your pocket, feel those coins? There's your change...
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16-02-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
(16-02-2013 02:56 PM)Logisch Wrote:  A thought crossed my mind today... if the average person really pays 10% of their income... how much do they spend or give to a church?

Let's assume that someone only pays 10% ONCE a month (let's say once out of two paychecks). Let's assume it's a fairly standard take home of $1350 (I think that'd put you in the range of $650/bimonthly).

So if you give 10% once a month that's $65. Now, let's multiply that by twelve.
$780.

What can you do with $780? Well... for some that's a mortgage payment, insurance for half (or a year) a year or even groceries for several months. Food for a local cannery that feeds the homeless or whatever. Shit, i can think of a fuckton of things I can do with $780.

That's only if the person gives 10% of their check once a month, not every check, biweekly. If they're a "good giver" and they give all, that number doubles.

$1,560. Fuck.

Want to make that more fun? In ten years you've given one year of your wages away. Literally if you sat on your ass and did your job to give an entire year of wages away. Gone. $15,600. If the average person lives give or take let's say 30,000 days, and the average person starts paying 10% once they are old enough to have such a supportive job (Let's assume you're 20)... and you pay for the remaining years you are alive 10% every paycheck to your church, that's about 22,700 days remaining, or 62 years. Assuming you made the same wage and it never changed and you made only $1350 take home per month paying in 10% of your income over your life time you would be giving:

$96,720 (You could buy a house for your church, or a large chunk of your retirement, or a whole shit ton of local support for charities that actually do shit)

Think about that for a minute. Now...

Imagine how many people go to said church. Calculate that maybe even if 100 members are present, and only 10-15% of those give each sunday... how much money that is. Just think about it.

My grandma used to give $600 a month to her church. Then she'd cry poor to anyone who would listen. Because yanno she was on a fixed income and couldn't afford to take trips.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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16-02-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
10% is a lot? You don't say.

[Image: megachurch-9302.jpg]

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16-02-2013, 11:04 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
The two churches I went to in the last 15 or so years always enforced tithing. Yes, Pentecostal type churches are hard core when it comes to that. My old Pastor said, "Tithe 10% and God will rebuke the devourer (Satan) for your sake." I tithed that amount for almost 10 years of my life! Crazy.
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16-02-2013, 11:06 PM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
(16-02-2013 10:52 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  10% is a lot? You don't say.

[Image: megachurch-9302.jpg]
Oh dear. I went to one of these once. They even had a "healing school".
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18-02-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
Tithing does stretch one's trust at times. I have many personal testimonies and the testimonies of others that financial needs are very well met and that Jesus rewards generosity--just not in the way some of the televangelists say--that God will return tens to thousands to one and all that nonsense.

Locally, where larger churches near me have big congregations (a large tithe base) they send money out (a lot of it) to support missions overseas, feed the poor locally, etc.

If you give God yourself, you gain eternal life. If you support God's kingdom with dollars, God is faithful and returns with interest and kindness.
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18-02-2013, 10:12 AM
RE: 10% is a lot of dough.
In the evolution of societies, church came before state.

Tithing is just the churches' version of taxation.

Nearly all societies (clubs, states, religions, charities etc.) gather subscriptions / fees / taxes / etc. in one way or another.

The obvious exception being internet communities.


For me, it comes down to governance (paraphrased as... fairness, accountability and transparency).

States' taxation has different forms in different countries but each system (if democratically derived) attempts at fairness.
Levels of accountability and transparency also vary per country but the trend is towards more not less of these.

I don't see much of either accountability and transparency in e.g. the catholic church. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If I could look at the books of these organisations and see money going to "feed the poor locally," vs. money spent on cronyism and evangelical swimming pools, I might be happy to give generously.

Just sayin'

Drinking Beverage

and btw, "missions overseas" would not be in the 'plus' column.
If the default is that peoples who have not been 'fortunate' enough to hear 'the word' are not sent to hell...

Don't fucking well tell 'em!

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