10 tough questions for theists.
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11-01-2016, 11:06 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I am trying to come up with 10 tough or long questions for theists to answer. These questions should leave in the extra wording no room for a theist to use common and basic text book answers like "because god wants a relationship" or because he's god etc etc answers.

I need a little help reworking how to ask these questions and I am having trouble coming up with a 10th answer. Each question is designed to have no easy answer, and to cover the basic logical fallacies of how most would answer it. No satire, commical or insulting questions either. So what do you think so far? Got a better question or a idea of how to word these better or idea for a 10th question?

1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

2. How can you possibly justify seeing a being whom infinitely tortures people for being born on the wrong side of the planet where Christianity doesn’t exist, believe in another deity they and their family has grown up with for generations or are an atheist as being the example of what ultimate good is?

3. If you are a creationist, have you ever once actually tried to study how science determines the age of rocks, what goes into the science itself, or any of the other mountains of science in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics, and everything else that has even the slightest amount to do with science that has verified irrefutably that the universe is not 6-8000 years old and is in fact billions of years old and rely almost entirely on that being a fact or most of the science in those fields would collapse entirely?

4. If you are a creationist and answered the question above than, Without using special pleading, the bible, your faith, or the statement that evolution is not real science which is a false statement, tell me why you believe that the world is only 6-8000 years old.

5. Without using the god wants to have a relationship with us argument, why is it that I as an atheist should believe that he exists, be more important than not raping a woman, murder, stealing someone? According to most Christian faiths, believing is the only criteria and no matter what you do, as long as you believe that is how you get in as the bible is quite clear about this fact.

6. Are you aware that the first four commandments are all the same exact commandment? If god was omniscient, don’t you really think that after you were to read the commandments again without your bible glasses on, that you might see some problems with that list?

7. From a Christian standpoint, why do so many Christians hate Islam more than the other religions like Judaism and Shintoism and voodoo or Mithraism?

8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

9. “If“you are one of the many majority of sects of Christianity that believes that Hitler is in Heaven because he repented for his crimes before committing suicide and that repenting and accepting Jesus is the only criteria for getting saved. Why don’t you murder and rape and steal and form an armed group of Christians to take over a nuclear missile silo and take it over and destroy the world? Or rape, then cook and eat babies in front of their parents, Repent and then kill yourself? If you can do all of that, repent with a few “oh please save me jesus I am sorry for I hath sinned” and then kill yourself and enjoy an infinite afterlife of endless joy and happiness while staring at the faces of all those you murdered or harmed as they look back at you knowing what you did to them and then you look down and see me in hell etc. Why don’t you do bad things or do any of that.

I shall pray you think of one more.

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12-01-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
I can only think of one question for theists.

1. Why do you believe this obvious bullshit ?

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12-01-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
Couple of thoughts:

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

I imagine that they would not view their special pleading as special pleading and therefore would answer something along the lines of that god can do anything.

My suggestion (or something along these lines):
If god interacts in the real world (i.e. miracles) even though he is everywhere, don't you think that these interactions would leave a testable and therefore falsifiable mark, thus providing physical evidence for his existence? If he does intercede, how can we tell the difference between a natural occurrence and his special interactions?

This way, they can't weasel in additional special pleading as a special pleading. If they acknowledge that god intercedes and he should leave a mark (such as life) they are left with the second part of explaining how they know that not only was the interaction divine, but also how they know it was THEIR god that interacted. If they say that he wouldn't leave a mark, then that begs the question of how then did you know a miracle occurred at all and not something else we are just not aware of yet?

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  2. How can you possibly justify seeing a being whom infinitely tortures people for being born on the wrong side of the planet where Christianity doesn’t exist, believe in another deity they and their family has grown up with for generations or are an atheist as being the example of what ultimate good is?

For reasons that are sufficient to god - Voldemoort Sye

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  3. If you are a creationist, have you ever once actually tried to study how science determines the age of rocks, what goes into the science itself, or any of the other mountains of science in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics, and everything else that has even the slightest amount to do with science that has verified irrefutably that the universe is not 6-8000 years old and is in fact billions of years old and rely almost entirely on that being a fact or most of the science in those fields would collapse entirely?

This only addresses the YEC folks. There are oodles of people who accept evolution but from a guided evolution standpoint. Additionally, there are the Christians who look at the Genesis account only as an allegory and not as fact. Also, this question seems way above most people's heads and could actually come off as a little condescending. I would ask this in two parts:
To the YEC
a) How do you reconcile the evidence collected in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics that demonstrate the Earth is over 10,000 years old with the biblical timeline that does not mention animals or events that were not known to the authors but would have been known to a creator deity?

To those who are more intelligent design
b) How can you tell the difference between life that arose due to natural causes (or even panspermia) and life that was given by a deity that breathed life into a heap of dirt?

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  4. If you are a creationist and answered the question above than, Without using special pleading, the bible, your faith, or the statement that evolution is not real science which is a false statement, tell me why you believe that the world is only 6-8000 years old.

I think this is a relevant question depending upon who you are talking to.

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  5. Without using the god wants to have a relationship with us argument, why is it that I as an atheist should believe that he exists, be more important than not raping a woman, murder, stealing someone? According to most Christian faiths, believing is the only criteria and no matter what you do, as long as you believe that is how you get in as the bible is quite clear about this fact.

Like this one. Although I have been told that it makes you a better person. Until you ask them how it makes them a better person which in my experience, their case evaporates when they answer.

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  6. Are you aware that the first four commandments are all the same exact commandment? If god was omniscient, don’t you really think that after you were to read the commandments again without your bible glasses on, that you might see some problems with that list?

The beginning of this question is argumentative and only going to piss them off because likely they won't view them as the same. You are asserting they are the same, so prove it.
I think a better question is to ask what about these are moral teachings? How does one derive morality from not working on the Sabbath? Isn't coveting the root of capitalism? Why would a being so powerful it can breathe the cosmos into existence by speaking be so butthurt by a graven image? Do I still have to honor my parents if I find my parents morally bankrupt?

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  7. From a Christian standpoint, why do so many Christians hate Islam more than the other religions like Judaism and Shintoism and voodoo or Mithraism?

Unless they actually hate any of these, this question seems irrelevant. You can think they are wrong or mislead and not hate the religion. Instead, I would phrase it something like this:
In light of all the other world's religions, how do you know that some evil force didn't create christianity to steal souls from some other god who is trying to speak to humanity through another religion? Seeing as how that is how some Christians view other religions in this way.

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

Great question.

(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  9. “If“you are one of the many majority of sects of Christianity that believes that Hitler is in Heaven because he repented for his crimes before committing suicide and that repenting and accepting Jesus is the only criteria for getting saved. Why don’t you murder and rape and steal and form an armed group of Christians to take over a nuclear missile silo and take it over and destroy the world? Or rape, then cook and eat babies in front of their parents, Repent and then kill yourself? If you can do all of that, repent with a few “oh please save me jesus I am sorry for I hath sinned” and then kill yourself and enjoy an infinite afterlife of endless joy and happiness while staring at the faces of all those you murdered or harmed as they look back at you knowing what you did to them and then you look down and see me in hell etc. Why don’t you do bad things or do any of that.

This a rather long question that I think can be compressed. You are essentially asking how is it moral to have a system where you can be forgiven for anything as long as you believe. That is how I read it anyway.

I would ask it like this: If the only requirement for paradise is faith and the only way to this paradise is by a system where you can commit any offense and be forgiven as long as you have faith, is it a moral system for anyone who commits any crime and be given a pass simply because they believe something completely unrelated? If so, what is actually stopping other people who believe something else, or nothing else at all from raping or killing?

Here is my #10:
How do you know that the stories of the OT are actual fact and not just literature using known events and places intended to entertain the people in tough times? If Job could have been a representation of the nation of Israel and their suffering, and Isaiah's suffering servant could have also been a social commentary on Israel, is it possible that later people just didn't get the overall context?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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12-01-2016, 12:15 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(12-01-2016 06:39 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I can only think of one question for theists.

1. Why do you believe this obvious bullshit ?

Because I'm scared and everyone else believes it except for those very evil people the priest warned me about and science is hard and the answers aren't nice and pink and fluffy like the answers religion gives me, and also it means if I'm a shit I have to take responsibility and can't pretend God told me to.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-01-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(12-01-2016 12:15 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 06:39 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I can only think of one question for theists.

1. Why do you believe this obvious bullshit ?

Because I'm scared and everyone else believes it except for those very evil people the priest warned me about and science is hard and the answers aren't nice and pink and fluffy like the answers religion gives me, and also it means if I'm a shit I have to take responsibility and can't pretend God told me to.

PS It also means all the people I've loved who died and that everyone told me are still alive are actually dead dead dead, and I'll never see them again.

We'll love you just the way you are
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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-01-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
Well....if confusing a theist to the point that they will be paralized is your goal, as a theist i can say that you succeed.
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12-01-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(12-01-2016 12:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Well....if confusing a theist to the point that they will be paralized is your goal, as a theist i can say that you succeed.

Laugh out load Jason, you're a good guy. A sense of humour is what a lot of theists lack, in my experience, but you and a few others do certainly restore my faith in humanity.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-01-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(12-01-2016 12:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(12-01-2016 12:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Well....if confusing a theist to the point that they will be paralized is your goal, as a theist i can say that you succeed.

Laugh out load Jason, you're a good guy. A sense of humour is what a lot of theists lack, in my experience, but you and a few others do certainly restore my faith in humanity.
I really appreciate your kind words. However, I cannot take full credit for my performance. I would like to thank all the wonderful memes that helped to contribute to my work. Here is a shout out to all the memes out there.

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12-01-2016, 01:02 PM
10 tough questions for theists.
You know...I have not heard from Chas is a while. Not since I posted this little gem.

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12-01-2016, 10:43 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
They all seem like decent questions, though a bit wordy, intentionally, as you stated. Clean em up a little like others said. I'd love to answer them personally. I can't really speak for others though.
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