10 tough questions for theists.
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13-01-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 10:42 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Ah. I see... yes, that's a problem.

Bob should convert to Judaism. Problem solved.

That is true. He could then take Wendy as a concubine, something not forbidden in Judaism as far as I am aware.

Edit, Also, the story clearly said that Bob was a christian which, if you take the words of Jesus, means that Bob may only divorce in the case of sexual immorality. A minor detail that most christians tend to ignore.

Yes, concubines, divorce and polygamy are technically permitted under Jewish law.

But I like to make the argument that Jewish law has not been invalidated just because Jesus and Paul had these new ideas.

.... so take a lover, Bob. It'll probably relieve some stress.
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13-01-2016, 12:59 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 11:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ... so take a lover, Bob. It'll probably relieve some stress ...

Pretty callous, don't you think, toward Jan? Or, because most established religiosity is paternalistic/misogynistic, Jan's feelings aren't worth considering?
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13-01-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I am trying to come up with 10 tough or long questions for theists to answer. These questions should leave in the extra wording no room for a theist to use common and basic text book answers like "because god wants a relationship" or because he's god etc etc answers.

I need a little help reworking how to ask these questions and I am having trouble coming up with a 10th answer. Each question is designed to have no easy answer, and to cover the basic logical fallacies of how most would answer it. No satire, commical or insulting questions either. So what do you think so far? Got a better question or a idea of how to word these better or idea for a 10th question?

1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

2. How can you possibly justify seeing a being whom infinitely tortures people for being born on the wrong side of the planet where Christianity doesn’t exist, believe in another deity they and their family has grown up with for generations or are an atheist as being the example of what ultimate good is?

3. If you are a creationist, have you ever once actually tried to study how science determines the age of rocks, what goes into the science itself, or any of the other mountains of science in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics, and everything else that has even the slightest amount to do with science that has verified irrefutably that the universe is not 6-8000 years old and is in fact billions of years old and rely almost entirely on that being a fact or most of the science in those fields would collapse entirely?

4. If you are a creationist and answered the question above than, Without using special pleading, the bible, your faith, or the statement that evolution is not real science which is a false statement, tell me why you believe that the world is only 6-8000 years old.

5. Without using the god wants to have a relationship with us argument, why is it that I as an atheist should believe that he exists, be more important than not raping a woman, murder, stealing someone? According to most Christian faiths, believing is the only criteria and no matter what you do, as long as you believe that is how you get in as the bible is quite clear about this fact.

6. Are you aware that the first four commandments are all the same exact commandment? If god was omniscient, don’t you really think that after you were to read the commandments again without your bible glasses on, that you might see some problems with that list?

7. From a Christian standpoint, why do so many Christians hate Islam more than the other religions like Judaism and Shintoism and voodoo or Mithraism?

8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

9. “If“you are one of the many majority of sects of Christianity that believes that Hitler is in Heaven because he repented for his crimes before committing suicide and that repenting and accepting Jesus is the only criteria for getting saved. Why don’t you murder and rape and steal and form an armed group of Christians to take over a nuclear missile silo and take it over and destroy the world? Or rape, then cook and eat babies in front of their parents, Repent and then kill yourself? If you can do all of that, repent with a few “oh please save me jesus I am sorry for I hath sinned” and then kill yourself and enjoy an infinite afterlife of endless joy and happiness while staring at the faces of all those you murdered or harmed as they look back at you knowing what you did to them and then you look down and see me in hell etc. Why don’t you do bad things or do any of that.

Hi Shadow Fox,

You wrote: 1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

I would simply ask: how can I objectively distinguish between what you call "God" and something you are merely imagining. I've asked this question to great effect. To date not one theist has been able to answer this question objectively. They can't answer it because their God is imaginary.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-01-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 12:59 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 11:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ... so take a lover, Bob. It'll probably relieve some stress ...

Pretty callous, don't you think, toward Jan? Or, because most established religiosity is paternalistic/misogynistic, Jan's feelings aren't worth considering?

Do Jan's feelings beat Bob's? Why can't Bob also be happy?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-01-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 12:59 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 11:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ... so take a lover, Bob. It'll probably relieve some stress ...

Pretty callous, don't you think, toward Jan? Or, because most established religiosity is paternalistic/misogynistic, Jan's feelings aren't worth considering?

Maybe Jan is perfectly cool with it. Maybe she's got a lover of her own.

Maybe Bob and Jan are a swinging kind of couple. Smile
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13-01-2016, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2016 05:12 PM by TarzanSmith.)
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  I am trying to come up with 10 tough or long questions for theists to answer. These questions should leave in the extra wording no room for a theist to use common and basic text book answers like "because god wants a relationship" or because he's god etc etc answers.

I need a little help reworking how to ask these questions and I am having trouble coming up with a 10th answer. Each question is designed to have no easy answer, and to cover the basic logical fallacies of how most would answer it. No satire, commical or insulting questions either. So what do you think so far? Got a better question or a idea of how to word these better or idea for a 10th question?

1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

2. How can you possibly justify seeing a being whom infinitely tortures people for being born on the wrong side of the planet where Christianity doesn’t exist, believe in another deity they and their family has grown up with for generations or are an atheist as being the example of what ultimate good is?

3. If you are a creationist, have you ever once actually tried to study how science determines the age of rocks, what goes into the science itself, or any of the other mountains of science in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics, and everything else that has even the slightest amount to do with science that has verified irrefutably that the universe is not 6-8000 years old and is in fact billions of years old and rely almost entirely on that being a fact or most of the science in those fields would collapse entirely?

4. If you are a creationist and answered the question above than, Without using special pleading, the bible, your faith, or the statement that evolution is not real science which is a false statement, tell me why you believe that the world is only 6-8000 years old.

5. Without using the god wants to have a relationship with us argument, why is it that I as an atheist should believe that he exists, be more important than not raping a woman, murder, stealing someone? According to most Christian faiths, believing is the only criteria and no matter what you do, as long as you believe that is how you get in as the bible is quite clear about this fact.

6. Are you aware that the first four commandments are all the same exact commandment? If god was omniscient, don’t you really think that after you were to read the commandments again without your bible glasses on, that you might see some problems with that list?

7. From a Christian standpoint, why do so many Christians hate Islam more than the other religions like Judaism and Shintoism and voodoo or Mithraism?

8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

9. “If“you are one of the many majority of sects of Christianity that believes that Hitler is in Heaven because he repented for his crimes before committing suicide and that repenting and accepting Jesus is the only criteria for getting saved. Why don’t you murder and rape and steal and form an armed group of Christians to take over a nuclear missile silo and take it over and destroy the world? Or rape, then cook and eat babies in front of their parents, Repent and then kill yourself? If you can do all of that, repent with a few “oh please save me jesus I am sorry for I hath sinned” and then kill yourself and enjoy an infinite afterlife of endless joy and happiness while staring at the faces of all those you murdered or harmed as they look back at you knowing what you did to them and then you look down and see me in hell etc. Why don’t you do bad things or do any of that.

First comment. #7 can easily be answered by "history". The hatred has less to do with doctrinal differences than the fact that there has often been a division between the Muslim and Christian worlds. And because the two worlds are adjacent they came into conflict more. Christians and Hindus never really fought. Also historically, before the Holocaust Jews were not well liked either. A similar question could be why to protestant Irish hate the Catholic Irish more than the Catholic Polish.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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13-01-2016, 05:15 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
Also #6 is not really a difficult question either. For Catholics it's also only the first 3 as we organise them differently. And then it is just 1. There is one God; 2. Don't disrespect God; 3. Have a minimum of 1 day to give to God.
So they are fairly different.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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13-01-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
How about a question in the realm of, How do you justify living in a world in which applied science virtually rules every minute of your day, but refuse to accept science when it points to something you don't agree with?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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13-01-2016, 05:32 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(11-01-2016 10:33 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  ... don't end a sentence with an "is."

That's not a rule of grammar in any system I know of (see what I did there?).

"Do you know where your mother is?" - how would you phrase that more clearly?

"Many people say there is no natural explanation for so-called 'miracles,' but clearly there is." - again, do you think this violates some rule of grammar?

Are you thinking of prepositions? I've made my living as a writer for nearly 30 years now, and while I do keep an eye on this, I have to say I appreciate Churchill's (alleged) comment, when criticized for violating the rule, "That is nonsense up with which I shall not put."

And show me a great work of literature that does not violate some hidebound rule of grammar, and rather effectively, at that. Can you say "Joyce," "Faulkner" and (yes!) "Orwell"?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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13-01-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 02:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 01:38 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  So how does that work - a heaven free of trouble filled with souls capable of feelings? Or perhaps the dead really are all brain-dead.

Well you're supposed to spend your time playing the harp, dressing up in white robes and singing about how great God is... I dunno about you but that doesn't sound like fun to me. Maybe up in heaven Jan, Bob and Wendy can just have a threesome and get over the whole one man one woman bullshit imposed by 'loving' God?

As Matt Dillahunty is fond of pointing out (specifically in relation to his believing mother), the only way this kind of heaven works is if god completely denatures his uber-worshipping robots. When they say, "You can't take it with you," don't forget this includes your essential self, humanity and essence.

In which case, did "you" really go to heaven at all?

Or: Magic! It all works because god is magicmagicmagic yay!

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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