10 tough questions for theists.
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13-01-2016, 05:42 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Bob should convert to Judaism. Problem solved.

Judaism should convert to B-b. Problem solved.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-01-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 05:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Bob should convert to Judaism. Problem solved.

Judaism should convert to B-b. Problem solved.

Okay, G-rly. I'm convinced. How do I convert?
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13-01-2016, 06:48 PM (This post was last modified: 13-01-2016 06:56 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 05:44 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 05:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Judaism should convert to B-b. Problem solved.

Okay, G-rly. I'm convinced. How do I convert?

Easy peasy Aliza. Realize that you are your own personal lord and savior, your own redeemer, your own messiah, the embodiment of The Word, your own personal Jesus.








There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-01-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 06:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 05:44 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Okay, G-rly. I'm convinced. How do I convert?

Easy peasy Aliza. Realize that you are your own personal lord and savior, your own redeemer, your own messiah, the embodiment of The Word, your own personal Jesus.








I don't need a redeemer, a lord and savior, a messiah or a personal Jesus. Actually, Jesus makes me want to vomit.

Can I still be in your religion?

(I liked the music, though)
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13-01-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(11-01-2016 07:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

xianity is a death cult. The afterlife matters. This was a huge issue for Nietzsche who considered it anti life.

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13-01-2016, 07:55 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 07:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 06:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Easy peasy Aliza. Realize that you are your own personal lord and savior, your own redeemer, your own messiah, the embodiment of The Word, your own personal Jesus.








I don't need a redeemer, a lord and savior, a messiah or a personal Jesus. Actually, Jesus makes me want to vomit.

Can I still be in your religion?

(I liked the music, though)

Yes.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-01-2016, 12:21 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 07:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2016 07:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I don't need a redeemer, a lord and savior, a messiah or a personal Jesus. Actually, Jesus makes me want to vomit.

Can I still be in your religion?

(I liked the music, though)

Yes.

Noooooooo. I want her for my religion Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-01-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(13-01-2016 01:18 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  how can I objectively distinguish between what you call "God" and something you are merely imagining.

You can't, but *I* can Yes I'm *special* Big Grin

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-01-2016, 10:12 AM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
Quote:1. How can we “objectively” see a difference between something that does not exist, and the god you believe in whom is separated from time and space and can never be observed or tested without equating events, existence to your god which would be a false cause fallacy, or making use of special pleading?

God has revealed his existence through his creation. Life is too complex to have come into existence as a result of chance.

Quote:2. How can you possibly justify seeing a being whom infinitely tortures people for being born on the wrong side of the planet where Christianity doesn’t exist, believe in another deity they and their family has grown up with for generations or are an atheist as being the example of what ultimate good is?
God is just. Those who are not forgiven by faith in Christ will receive whatever punishment they deserve, no more or no less. As I pointed out in my previous answer, God has revealed his existence to everyone through his creation. All have refused to honor him as God or to give thanks, so we all deserve punishment.

Quote:3. If you are a creationist, have you ever once actually tried to study how science determines the age of rocks, what goes into the science itself, or any of the other mountains of science in the fields of biology, medicine, astronomy, geology, Astrophysics, Quantum Physics, and everything else that has even the slightest amount to do with science that has verified irrefutably that the universe is not 6-8000 years old and is in fact billions of years old and rely almost entirely on that being a fact or most of the science in those fields would collapse entirely?
The disagreement between creationists and evolutionists is based on history, not science. We believe the universe was created by God; they believe it came about entirely as the result of natural processes. The measurement processes that show the universe is old all assume that their view of history is correct.

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...t-science/

Quote:4. If you are a creationist and answered the question above than, Without using special pleading, the bible, your faith, or the statement that evolution is not real science which is a false statement, tell me why you believe that the world is only 6-8000 years old.

It is impossible for me to answer that question without using the Bible.

Quote:5. Without using the god wants to have a relationship with us argument, why is it that I as an atheist should believe that he exists, be more important than not raping a woman, murder, stealing someone? According to most Christian faiths, believing is the only criteria and no matter what you do, as long as you believe that is how you get in as the bible is quite clear about this fact.
What you believe determines what you do and how you live.

Quote:6. Are you aware that the first four commandments are all the same exact commandment? If god was omniscient, don’t you really think that after you were to read the commandments again without your bible glasses on, that you might see some problems with that list?

I don't see any problem with it. We are often so thick skulled that God has to say the same thing more than once before we can understand it.

Quote:7. From a Christian standpoint, why do so many Christians hate Islam more than the other religions like Judaism and Shintoism and voodoo or Mithraism?
Do Christians hate Islam more than they hate other religion? Today many people, both Christians and non-Christians hate Islam because of the threat it poses to others.

Islam is different from other religions because it was started by Satan for the purpose of bringing the Antichrist into the world.

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...abraham-2/

Quote:8. I actually want you to think about this for a good ten minutes. Doesn’t having an infinite afterlife make our finite life completely meaningless?

It is the fact of an infinite afterlife that makes the present life so meaningful. The consequences of how we live this life will endure eternally.

Quote:9. “If“you are one of the many majority of sects of Christianity that believes that Hitler is in Heaven because he repented for his crimes before committing suicide and that repenting and accepting Jesus is the only criteria for getting saved. Why don’t you murder and rape and steal and form an armed group of Christians to take over a nuclear missile silo and take it over and destroy the world? Or rape, then cook and eat babies in front of their parents, Repent and then kill yourself? If you can do all of that, repent with a few “oh please save me jesus I am sorry for I hath sinned” and then kill yourself and enjoy an infinite afterlife of endless joy and happiness while staring at the faces of all those you murdered or harmed as they look back at you knowing what you did to them and then you look down and see me in hell etc. Why don’t you do bad things or do any of that.
This question doesn't apply to me because I don't believe Hitler is in Heaven.

Why didn't you call this post "Questions for Christians" instead of "Questions for theists"?

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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14-01-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: 10 tough questions for theists.
(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  1) God has revealed his existence through his creation. Life is too complex to have come into existence as a result of chance.

a) see my question set and then try to weasel in this answer (see page 2).
b) you don't seem to understand what a probability means

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  2) God is just. Those who are not forgiven by faith in Christ will receive whatever punishment they deserve, no more or no less. As I pointed out in my previous answer, God has revealed his existence to everyone through his creation. All have refused to honor him as God or to give thanks, so we all deserve punishment.

I actually don't know whether there is a god or not. I am not refusing to acknowledge him/her/it. I imagine the same goes to most of the people on here. So given your answer, please demonstrate how you know that I know what I don't know. Good luck. Also, punishment has an ultimate purpose, the god that the christians created is a monstrous cantankerous bully who would punish others for his own incompetence.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  3) The disagreement between creationists and evolutionists is based on history, not science. We believe the universe was created by God; they believe it came about entirely as the result of natural processes. The measurement processes that show the universe is old all assume that their view of history is correct.

By what means did you determine that god created the universe? A universe, that by all observable means available to us, works just fine without the supernatural. Additionally, "their" view of history has nothing to do with the age of the universe and humanity being formed out of a pile of dirt. The former is testable, verifiable, and repeatable. The latter is unsubstantiated and by all available information, nonsense.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  4) It is impossible for me to answer that question without using the Bible.

Interesting because to answer his question, there are several available means to come about a consistent answer and those means use what is in nature and not languages that evolve and die.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  5) What you believe determines what you do and how you live.

Nice answer. And no, that's not sarcasm.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  6) I don't see any problem with it. We are often so thick skulled that God has to say the same thing more than once before we can understand it.

I think the question could be worded better and your answer sort of makes my point.
If we do not understand the answer, that is the fault of the communicator. Think about it, you just said that we don't understand what god wants. That is HIS fault, not ours. It would be akin to me trying to teach calculus to my six-year-old, then telling him that it's his fault he didn't understand. That is the fault of the teacher, not the student.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  7) Do Christians hate Islam more than they hate other religion? Today many people, both Christians and non-Christians hate Islam because of the threat it poses to others.

This was another question that I thought could have been worded better for this reason. However, I do not agree that christians don't like Islam for the threat it poses to others but rather they dislike the fact that they aren't christians which is an entirely different thing. In my experience, christians are more apprehensive and threatened out of ignorance towards other ideas that may or may not be at odds with what they think.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Islam is different from other religions because it was started by Satan for the purpose of bringing the Antichrist into the world.

.....and this was just so stupid I won't even address it. No

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  8) It is the fact of an infinite afterlife that makes the present life so meaningful. The consequences of how we live this life will endure eternally.

Herein lies the most wicked teaching in the bible IMO. The idea of eternal consequence for a finite "crime." So let me see if I get your take on this: God is so just that he will create a universe that appears to function completely without any supernatural origins or interactions and create a particular primate species on a tiny, insignificant rock to have a personal relationship with but he will not interact with everyone directly, only some of them, and in an effort to convince them of his justness, he orders the massacre of millions of outgroup primates so his "chosen" people can settle on a mass of land with people already living on it only to later send himself down on a suicide mission as atonement to himself for transgressions these primates made because they may or may not have understood his wishes, paralleling already circulating stories of superbeings doing the same thing and if you accept all of this, you get to enjoy an eternity of kissing his ass while all of the people who either understood the story differently, misunderstood the story, or thought the story was as silly as the other stories that were circulating are going to be sent to an invisible place where they may or may not be tortured for all time because the message was not clear to everyone simply because this superbeing didn't to talk to everyone in terms they could understand?

This is (to me) the most disgusting idea ever excreted by a human and if it were true, I would want nothing to do with this monster as I find it morally bankrupt.

(14-01-2016 10:12 AM)theophilus Wrote:  9) This question doesn't apply to me because I don't believe Hitler is in Heaven.

You missed the point of the question. You have to read the whole thing, not just stop after "Hitler."

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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