10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
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15-11-2016, 07:02 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 12:44 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 12:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  Whose intent?

And you seem to have missed the point. The process of evolution is not intentional.

There is no who.

And without getting into the finer points of cells and the nucleus.

[Image: 41f6acd616cd93ba3ceaa582c6aa3bf5.jpg]

This was begotten from intent.

You are misusing the word 'intent'. Without a 'who', there is no intent. Cells and chemistry have no intent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2016, 07:03 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 07:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 12:44 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  There is no who.

And without getting into the finer points of cells and the nucleus.

[Image: 41f6acd616cd93ba3ceaa582c6aa3bf5.jpg]

This was begotten from intent.

You are misusing the word 'intent'. Without a 'who', there is no intent. Cells and chemistry have no intent.

This sounds like the same BS ol tomato was spewing out.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-11-2016, 07:25 AM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2016 07:37 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(14-11-2016 10:29 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I use hardcore as in nothing could shake me from my foundations of disbelief.

What is a "foundation of disbelief"?

Skepticism? You should never lose that. You should always be skeptical of every claim made to you. You should demand demonstrable, repeatable evidence that is, well, evident to anyone who examines it.

If you were not able to be shaken from your "foundations of disbelief", whateverthefuck that means, then you might have been an atheist, but you were no sort of skeptic or freethinker. In that respect, then, I would have felt sorry for you.

Perhaps it is because of my training in science, but I have a strong response to what you said, above. Someone already said it better than I could, so I'll resort to a quotation:

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." - Carl Sagan

[Edited because self-grammar-nazi.]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-11-2016, 08:27 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(14-11-2016 09:59 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  But for example if say all the galaxies were actually heading away from us that would be essentially saying that we were at the epicenter of the big bang, which is essentially like saying the earth is the center of the solar system.

No, it wouldn't be saying that at all. If everything is moving away from everything (which is pretty much the current consensus, with a few local exceptions), you would see everything moving away from you no matter where you are. And even if the earth literally were the center of the universe and everything else was moving away from us (with velocity proportional to its distance), you would still see everything moving away from you no matter where you were!

So your conclusion absolutely doesn't follow. You fail to properly understand three-dimensional geometry.
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15-11-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 07:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are misusing the word 'intent'. Without a 'who', there is no intent. Cells and chemistry have no intent.

This sounds like the same BS ol tomato was spewing out.

Suspiciously similar? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-11-2016, 11:02 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 10:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This sounds like the same BS ol tomato was spewing out.

Suspiciously similar? Consider

Tomato's still here, though, isn't he? Or did I miss something?
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15-11-2016, 11:11 AM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 10:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2016 07:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  This sounds like the same BS ol tomato was spewing out.

Suspiciously similar? Consider

I don't think they are one and the same, but tomato is pretty dishonest Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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15-11-2016, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 15-11-2016 03:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(14-11-2016 09:33 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I'd say a bunch of organisms working in unison to make you who you are is pretty guided. That's like a thousand people coming together to construct a temple, except in this case its little tiny cells and the temple is your body. ^-^

Totally wrong again. Fallacy of the false analogy.
The cells that have differentiated to make up your tissues and organs are not "organisms" (I see you have NO SCIENCE background AT ALL). The cells behave as they do because their DNA has evolved to make them work the way they do. There is absolutely NO "intentionality" involved AT ALL, and you have no evidence for any.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-11-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 07:25 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(14-11-2016 10:29 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  I use hardcore as in nothing could shake me from my foundations of disbelief.

What is a "foundation of disbelief"?

Skepticism? You should never lose that. You should always be skeptical of every claim made to you. You should demand demonstrable, repeatable evidence that is, well, evident to anyone who examines it.

If you were not able to be shaken from your "foundations of disbelief", whateverthefuck that means, then you might have been an atheist, but you were no sort of skeptic or freethinker. In that respect, then, I would have felt sorry for you.

Perhaps it is because of my training in science, but I have a strong response to what you said, above. Someone already said it better than I could, so I'll resort to a quotation:

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." - Carl Sagan

[Edited because self-grammar-nazi.]

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual." - Carl Sagan

"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid." - Carl Sagan

I am hear where I am because I am skeptical, you are there where you are, because you are also skeptical. Don't pity me because I am not like you, rejoice and celebrate in our differences for that is what makes us unique.

More on the big bang.

I found the answer that I was looking for, when I made this thread so. Thank you very much for that.
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15-11-2016, 03:23 PM
RE: 10 years a hardcore atheist, now i'm not sure what I am.
(15-11-2016 03:14 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  "Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual." - Carl Sagan

"An atheist has to know a lot more than I know. An atheist is someone who knows there is no god. By some definitions atheism is very stupid." - Carl Sagan

I am hear where I am because I am skeptical, you are there where you are, because you are also skeptical. Don't pity me because I am not like you, rejoice and celebrate in our differences for that is what makes us unique.

More on the big bang.

I found the answer that I was looking for, when I made this thread so. Thank you very much for that.

Fail #1 : I did not pity you because you are not like me. I pitied a version of you that closed its mind.

Fail #2 : Sagan was an agnostic, and often referred to atheism as being only the version that makes a positive assertion that gods do not exist, which is not entirely accurate. However, Dr. Sagan did not actually say the quote about it being "stupid". That's a paraphrase of someone else quoting him, and a deliberately misleading one.

The actual quote is:

"Those who raise questions about the God hypothesis and the soul hypothesis are by no means all atheist. An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do know to be sure that no such God exist ..."

Sagan was, like most scientists, an agnostic on the issue. And he is one of the people, living or dead, whom I respect most in all of human history.

SO DON'T FUCKING EVER MISQUOTE HIM AGAIN YOU DOUCHEBAG.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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