10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
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25-03-2013, 06:41 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2013 06:44 PM by Heathen.)
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(25-03-2013 10:33 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(25-03-2013 10:14 AM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  What scares me is how many people I know still think its tied to 9/11

No

What scares me is how many people still think 9/11 was an unprovoked attack.


I agree with both of you.

What continues to scare a lot of us up here is how many people think the 9/11 perptrators entered the US through Canada. It's hard to blame Joe Public though when (then) Republican presidential candidate, John McCain and (then) Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano have said this as recently as 2009.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 06:54 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(19-03-2013 02:08 PM)Julius Wrote:  For the second time in my life the US has gone to war on a false charge of aggression. The first was Vietnam and the second was Iraq. Yeah...I'd say Iraq is a disaster for America - an outright tragedy.

Nah, Iraq went perfectly well for the people who wanted war. I'm under the impression that the majority of Iraq's oil money is now making its way West pretty quickly. I also heard a story (not sure how true it is) that America's invasion happened to come just as Iraq was about to seal some big international oil deal in Euros (not Dollars!!!) which, so unfortunately for America, then didn't happen.

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27-03-2013, 07:58 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 06:54 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(19-03-2013 02:08 PM)Julius Wrote:  For the second time in my life the US has gone to war on a false charge of aggression. The first was Vietnam and the second was Iraq. Yeah...I'd say Iraq is a disaster for America - an outright tragedy.

Nah, Iraq went perfectly well for the people who wanted war. I'm under the impression that the majority of Iraq's oil money is now making its way West pretty quickly. I also heard a story (not sure how true it is) that America's invasion happened to come just as Iraq was about to seal some big international oil deal in Euros (not Dollars!!!) which, so unfortunately for America, then didn't happen.

I'm not sure what the real reasons were for that war, but I do know that reasons put forward were bullshit. That much at least, is clear.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 08:26 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 06:54 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(19-03-2013 02:08 PM)Julius Wrote:  For the second time in my life the US has gone to war on a false charge of aggression. The first was Vietnam and the second was Iraq. Yeah...I'd say Iraq is a disaster for America - an outright tragedy.

Nah, Iraq went perfectly well for the people who wanted war. I'm under the impression that the majority of Iraq's oil money is now making its way West pretty quickly. I also heard a story (not sure how true it is) that America's invasion happened to come just as Iraq was about to seal some big international oil deal in Euros (not Dollars!!!) which, so unfortunately for America, then didn't happen.

http://rense.com/general34/realre.htm

here you go, also not sure how much validity there is to it, but an interesting read.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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27-03-2013, 09:08 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2013 09:30 PM by Heathen.)
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
Thanks, looks interesting. I'll give it a read.

I've got a lot of opinions and suspicions about the real reasons for the war. Most have at least some evidence but these things are tough to prove with certainty. I tend to think there were several reasons which came together and combined, enough weight to actually do it. I don't believe a word of the "official" explanations.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 09:08 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Thanks, looks interesting. I'll give it a read.

I've got a lot of opinions and suspicions about the real reasons for the war. Most have at least some evidence but these things are tough to prove with certainty. I tend to think there were several reasons which came together and combined, enough weight to actually do it.

I agree. I haven't done enough real research to have a formal opinion on the subject. Essentially I chalk it up to America doing what we do best, imposing our will on the weaker for gain no matter who gets in the way.

Noam Chomsky has a lot of great viewpoints. Look him up on YouTube. Essentially we are following the same path as every empire in history has before us. Nothing new, it's just our turn to be the dicks of the planet.

It's a fucking shame, we have so much potential, just too much religious capitalism.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2013, 09:41 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
I've read quite a few of Chomsky's books. I'm skeptical (of course) about a lot of what he says but I do believe there is a lot of truth in there. I certainly agree with much of his "big picture" ideas.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 09:45 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 09:33 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 09:08 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Thanks, looks interesting. I'll give it a read.

I've got a lot of opinions and suspicions about the real reasons for the war. Most have at least some evidence but these things are tough to prove with certainty. I tend to think there were several reasons which came together and combined, enough weight to actually do it.

I agree. I haven't done enough real research to have a formal opinion on the subject. Essentially I chalk it up to America doing what we do best, imposing our will on the weaker for gain no matter who gets in the way.

Noam Chomsky has a lot of great viewpoints. Look him up on YouTube. Essentially we are following the same path as every empire in history has before us. Nothing new, it's just our turn to be the dicks of the planet.

It's a fucking shame, we have so much potential, just too much religious capitalism.

1. Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

2. What is "religious capitalism"?

3. Why are you and your mouse engaging in religious capitalism?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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27-03-2013, 10:20 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 09:45 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 09:33 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I agree. I haven't done enough real research to have a formal opinion on the subject. Essentially I chalk it up to America doing what we do best, imposing our will on the weaker for gain no matter who gets in the way.

Noam Chomsky has a lot of great viewpoints. Look him up on YouTube. Essentially we are following the same path as every empire in history has before us. Nothing new, it's just our turn to be the dicks of the planet.

It's a fucking shame, we have so much potential, just too much religious capitalism.

1. Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

2. What is "religious capitalism"?

3. Why are you and your mouse engaging in religious capitalism?

1. I'm not sure, the snake might have eaten him.

2. There was a pun intended there, I meant it to mean that we practice capitalism religiously, and on a global scale. Highlander style, there can be only one.

3. See #1.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2013, 10:22 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 09:41 PM)Heathen Wrote:  I've read quite a few of Chomsky's books. I'm skeptical (of course) about a lot of what he says but I do believe there is a lot of truth in there. I certainly agree with much of his "big picture" ideas.

You're way ahead of me on all of his views than. I was going for the "big picture" ideas I've heard from him. You only get so much from youtube, and I have little time to do any involved reading these days.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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