10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
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27-03-2013, 10:35 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 10:22 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 09:41 PM)Heathen Wrote:  I've read quite a few of Chomsky's books. I'm skeptical (of course) about a lot of what he says but I do believe there is a lot of truth in there. I certainly agree with much of his "big picture" ideas.

You're way ahead of me on all of his views than. I was going for the "big picture" ideas I've heard from him. You only get so much from youtube, and I have little time to do any involved reading these days.

I'm an old school fart, but my Kindle was a great investment. It's surprising how much time you actually do have to read when it's easily available. But you do require a big pocket. Smile

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 10:35 PM)Heathen Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:22 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  You're way ahead of me on all of his views than. I was going for the "big picture" ideas I've heard from him. You only get so much from youtube, and I have little time to do any involved reading these days.

I'm an old school fart, but my Kindle was a great investment. It's surprising how much time you actually do have to read when it's easily available. But you do require a big pocket. Smile

Right on. I'm a bit new at this "learning" thing. I hated school and wasted my twenties being wasted. Hobo
You said you're a about two years from kids being gone? I'm just over two years into parenthood, and another about to arrive. So my new interest in knowledge is ill timed, but I'm doing what I can. I've got time for lernin' I figure. Just glad I've got a clear head about things.

And yes, I do require a big pocket. Thumbsup

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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27-03-2013, 11:31 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
Twenties? I think that must have been that missing decade people tell me about. I'm told I had a great time though. Big Grin Smokin

Spend time on your kids, it DOES pay great dividends. But your search for knowledge IS part of that. Sounds like you are further along your road than I was when my kids were young. Thumbsup

But getting back to Iraq... what I find very disturbing, as a Canadian aka outsider, is the perception of the American public toward this war. I don't want to offend but it seems as though half the citizens have been completely brainwashed. I see the pomp and circumstance, the uniforms, flags, caskets and the speakers invoking god and the protection of the homeland. And while I have nothing but respect for those who give their lives in the service of their country, it also scares the shit out of me. (I'm trying to tread gently here) There are threats around the world that I find even more frightening. But after Iraq, Vietnam, the shenanigans in Central America..... I find it very difficult to trust the USofA. Not that I trust Russia, China, Pakistan and other powerful nations, but when you don't trust the elephant in your bed the world becomes a very scary place.

"Which is more likely: that the whole natural order is suspended, or that a jewish minx should tell a lie?"- David Hume
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27-03-2013, 11:57 PM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 11:31 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Twenties? I think that must have been that missing decade people tell me about. I'm told I had a great time though. Big Grin Smokin

Spend time on your kids, it DOES pay great dividends. But your search for knowledge IS part of that. Sounds like you are further along your road than I was when my kids were young. Thumbsup

But getting back to Iraq... what I find very disturbing, as a Canadian aka outsider, is the perception of the American public toward this war. I don't want to offend but it seems as though half the citizens have been completely brainwashed. I see the pomp and circumstance, the uniforms, flags, caskets and the speakers invoking god and the protection of the homeland. And while I have nothing but respect for those who give their lives in the service of their country, it also scares the shit out of me. (I'm trying to tread gently here) There are threats around the world that I find even more frightening. But after Iraq, Vietnam, the shenanigans in Central America..... I find it very difficult to trust the USofA. Not that I trust Russia, China, Pakistan and other powerful nations, but when you don't trust the elephant in your bed the world becomes a very scary place.

Alright, first off, I don't live in the worst 'Merica has to offer, but I'm sittin' pretty in God, Guts 'n Guns country. So nothing you can say is gonna offend me more than everyday overheard conversation here. It is ugly. There is pomp and circumstance brainwashing and from what I've seen, it only gets worse when you get into service. The driving factor, mentally, (and I can't personally attest to this, I only know from opinions I've heard) is basically racism.

It's driven home here in the homeland, and tenfold once you're trained and armed and in a foreign land where you are being shot at. I detest it absolutely. You are sold the rhetoric every day that you are hated because of the "freedoms" you enjoy. Anyone who has done any studying of our relationship with the middle east over the past few decades can see that we've been asking for this shit all along.

The military gets 'em young, dumb and full of hatred. And for me the world is a very scary place. I love my country for the good countrymen that I know, and for the millions of countrymen who protest and want better for us and the world. Unfortunately those people are not the ones pulling the strings. The answers as to how we can turn this shit around just aren't quite clear.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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28-03-2013, 12:04 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
Wolfowitz, and the Neocons from the U of Chicago had it all planned LONG before they actually had some specious (supposed) "evidence".
As usual, the old men send the young ones to die. Then years later they go "oops".
Well fuck that shit.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article...17492.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-03-2013, 04:23 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(28-03-2013 12:04 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wolfowitz, and the Neocons from the U of Chicago had it all planned LONG before they actually had some specious (supposed) "evidence".
As usual, the old men send the young ones to die. Then years later they go "oops".
Well fuck that shit.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article...17492.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz


"Asked whether the deaths and injuries of troops weigh on him (Wolfowitz), he paused before responding: “I realise these are consequential decisions. It’s just that they’re consequential both ways."

What the fuck does that doublespeak bullshit even mean?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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28-03-2013, 04:26 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(27-03-2013 11:31 PM)Heathen Wrote:  Twenties? I think that must have been that missing decade people tell me about. I'm told I had a great time though. Big Grin Smokin

Spend time on your kids, it DOES pay great dividends. But your search for knowledge IS part of that. Sounds like you are further along your road than I was when my kids were young. Thumbsup

But getting back to Iraq... what I find very disturbing, as a Canadian aka outsider, is the perception of the American public toward this war. I don't want to offend but it seems as though half the citizens have been completely brainwashed. I see the pomp and circumstance, the uniforms, flags, caskets and the speakers invoking god and the protection of the homeland. And while I have nothing but respect for those who give their lives in the service of their country, it also scares the shit out of me. (I'm trying to tread gently here) There are threats around the world that I find even more frightening. But after Iraq, Vietnam, the shenanigans in Central America..... I find it very difficult to trust the USofA. Not that I trust Russia, China, Pakistan and other powerful nations, but when you don't trust the elephant in your bed the world becomes a very scary place.
The US is not going to do anything to Canada,Heathen.Heart

However, I think you're correct that the US government-and many US citizens,are totally full of crap,and naive beyond belief.
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28-03-2013, 04:36 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(28-03-2013 04:26 AM)Juv Wrote:  The US is not going to do anything to Canada,Heathen.Heart

However, I think you're correct that the US government-and many US citizens,are totally full of crap,and naive beyond belief.

You mean, other than dragging them into these murderous rampages it is foisting upon the rest of the world in its zeal to become the largest and most dangerous empire ever known to mankind...

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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28-03-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
(A meeting of world powers)

"Hey have you seen Saddam the cheeky bastard wanting to trade in Euros and not Dollars??? What happens if he does and others follow suit, i'm not happy about this"

"Don't worry about it we shall dead him, no worries"

"But how?"

"Erm... lets say he has the capabilities to launch WMD within 45 minutes and then we shall shock and awe him"

"Ok sounds good to me"

"Would be good for the military complex as well, after we have smashed the place up we can profit from re-building it... win win"

Later

"Shit people are starting to question why there isnt any WMDs in Iraq... what shall we do"

"Its ok, Tony Bliar is using Dr David Kelly as a scapegoat.. we shall blame him"

"Hmmmm, hes denying it. Had we better dead him?"

"Yeah why not"

A few months later

"The people are wanting an inquest into his death... what shall we do?"

"Its ok, we wont have a proper inquest but instead have a Hutton Inquiry about it judged by somebody who has no coroner qualifications and we wont allow any witnesses to speak or any proper evidence to be given"

"Great"

A few years later

"Have you seen Qaddafi wanting to implement the Gold Dinar as an african currency??? What the fuck are we going to do? Our money is simply electronic and he wants to trade with something real... time to dead him?"

"Yeah sure why not"

later

"Shit peeps. There are millions of people in support of Qaddafi and now the Iraqis are saying they were better off under Saddam"

"Pffft. Who cares, we simply wont put it in the mainstream media"

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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29-03-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: 10 years out, Iraq, a disaster ?
I thought Saddam's execution was ridiculous. I'm not defending his actions but I am criticising the way the West handled it.

We hung him for his crimes in the 80's? The same crimes that by all accounts we totally knew about when we went in in the 90's yet did nothing about. To be honest I think we executed him to try and make the Iraq war seem like less of a failure. We went in to stop Saddam from producing weapons of, then it turned out he never had any. Then we go "now we will make Saddam answer for his crimes, we did what we came in for". Erm, what, no you didn't! That was never what you went in for. Also, I heard that the original judge at his trial was removed for being too sympathetic to him. If that's true then what the actual fuck!

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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