1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
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11-01-2016, 07:42 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(06-01-2016 07:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  That's not the actual headline, but it is the most succinct and accurate way to summarize this story :

Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046

Quote:The scale of the attacks on women at the city's central railway station has shocked Germany. About 1,000 drunk and aggressive young men were involved.
City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said. Women were also targeted in Hamburg. But the Cologne assaults - near the city's iconic cathedral - were the most serious, German media report. At least one woman was raped, and many were groped.
Most of the crimes reported to police were robberies. A volunteer policewoman was among those sexually molested.The pretty Christmas market and medieval setting may look idyllic, but at Christmas and New Year the area around Cologne Cathedral is a notorious danger zone when it comes to pickpockets and theft. Now the sexual harassment, and in one case rape, of dozens of women has shocked Germany. What is particularly disturbing is that the attacks appear to have been organised. Around 1,000 young men arrived in large groups, seemingly with the specific intention of carrying out attacks on women.

...


How can anyone hear of this and not come to the conclusion that Islam is utter trash if it leads to this kind of behavior? I hear a story like this and cannot help but recall a video clip of some Muslim preacher lecturing Dawkins about over-sexualized Western culture and how awful it is how we "dress our women". If there are any redeeming qualities of Islam, I have not yet seen them. Other religions have similar faults, but I cannot help but feel that Islam is a particularly wicked set of beliefs.

Why is it that when we hear of violence conducted by black kids from the ghetto, no one particularly associates that with Christianity, though nearly all black kids are christians. Were as if you're an arab kid committing violence, and such heinous public acts it's a Muslim thing? When it's black kids we blame poverty and socio-economic factors, but not when their arabs, where we blame religion.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-01-2016, 08:09 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-01-2016 07:20 PM)BryanS Wrote:  That's not the actual headline, but it is the most succinct and accurate way to summarize this story :

Germany shocked by Cologne New Year gang assaults on women
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046



How can anyone hear of this and not come to the conclusion that Islam is utter trash if it leads to this kind of behavior? I hear a story like this and cannot help but recall a video clip of some Muslim preacher lecturing Dawkins about over-sexualized Western culture and how awful it is how we "dress our women". If there are any redeeming qualities of Islam, I have not yet seen them. Other religions have similar faults, but I cannot help but feel that Islam is a particularly wicked set of beliefs.

Why is it that when we hear of violence conducted by black kids from the ghetto, no one particularly associates that with Christianity, though nearly all black kids are christians. Were as if you're an arab kid committing violence, and such heinous public acts it's a Muslim thing? When it's black kids we blame poverty and socio-economic factors, but not when their arabs, where we blame religion.

There is a very simple answer to your question. Christianity does not have large numbers of people who follow a version of their faith that says it is OK to rape women.

Yes, this is entirely the fault of Islam, where extreme versions of it explain when it is OK to rape your female slaves gained in war spoils, where mainstream versions of it have women forced to wear burlap sacks </sarc> in order to avoid being raped, and when a raped women is always at fault .

There is a history of mysogony in Christianity as well, however nothing exists in Christianity today that compares to Islam's treatment of women. If you cannot see this, then please, keep researching this. If you do see this, then why are you excusing this?
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11-01-2016, 08:19 AM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 08:24 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 08:09 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why is it that when we hear of violence conducted by black kids from the ghetto, no one particularly associates that with Christianity, though nearly all black kids are christians. Were as if you're an arab kid committing violence, and such heinous public acts it's a Muslim thing? When it's black kids we blame poverty and socio-economic factors, but not when their arabs, where we blame religion.

There is a very simple answer to your question. Christianity does not have large numbers of people who follow a version of their faith that says it is OK to rape women.

So if the bible had similar passages to that of Quran, we would then be able to blame Christianity for the violence conducted by disenfranchised black teenagers?

You don't see what's wrong with this line of reasoning?

Clearly many poor black kids engage in a disproportionate amount of deviant behavior, behave this way in spite of their religious identity. And we tend to exclude religion as the source of that behavior., where the same is not being applied to the German muslim kids?

I live in the US, the sort of problems faced by other european nations with their arabs populations is unparalleled to anything going on with ours. In fact muslims in america, tend to represent model citizens, tend to uphold american values, and assimilate to a considerable degree. The closest parallel we have is among the black community. But we're not inclined to imagine the problem here as a religious one.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-01-2016, 08:22 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
Quote:There is currently an Islamic invasion of Europe.

That is fear mongering
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11-01-2016, 08:30 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 08:09 AM)BryanS Wrote:  Yes, this is entirely the fault of Islam, where extreme versions of it explain when it is OK to rape your female slaves gained in war spoils, where mainstream versions of it have women forced to wear burlap sacks </sarc> in order to avoid being raped, and when a raped women is always at fault .

Have you seen the documentary India's Daughter? The basic attitude towards woman, being described is exemplary of the ones by the rapists, and even by their defense lawyers, who believe that woman invite rape upon themselves by dressing scandalously, for being out late at night, etc..... And here agains it's attitude which is not really possible to blame hinduism for.

We might as well blame moral nihilism, for the inability of secular societies to claim there's anything truly wrong with rape, or senseless acts of violence, for peddling the belief that morality is subjective. In this case it's not religions fault for condoning rape as Ok, but subjective moralities inability to say there's nothing truly not okay about it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-01-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
One needs to focus on cultural indoctrination and the need to respect the customs of a host.

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11-01-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 08:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  One needs to focus on cultural indoctrination and the need to respect the customs of a host.

No one is entitled to respect. The host better earn your respect before you afford it to them.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-01-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 08:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  One needs to focus on cultural indoctrination and the need to respect the customs of a host.

No one is entitled to respect. The host better earn your respect before you afford it to them.

No Tomasia they don't. If you go to someones house you do not shit on the carpet. You respect that person who has allowed you into their home. If you do not like the way they live you can fuck off and not visit again.

As can anybody who emigrates to a different country. If it turns out you do not gel with your host nation and you do not like the lifestyle you are free to move elsewhere to somewhere you feel happier in. Whole nations do not have to change because a bunch of newcomers don't like it.

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11-01-2016, 09:57 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 08:09 AM)BryanS Wrote:  There is a history of mysogony in Christianity as well, however nothing exists in Christianity today that compares to Islam's treatment of women. If you cannot see this, then please, keep researching this. If you do see this, then why are you excusing this?

Wrong. Look at some of the fundamentalist sects, e.g. Mormons.

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11-01-2016, 09:58 AM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 08:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 08:09 AM)BryanS Wrote:  There is a very simple answer to your question. Christianity does not have large numbers of people who follow a version of their faith that says it is OK to rape women.

So if the bible had similar passages to that of Quran, we would then be able to blame Christianity for the violence conducted by disenfranchised black teenagers?

You don't see what's wrong with this line of reasoning?

Clearly many poor black kids engage in a disproportionate amount of deviant behavior, behave this way in spite of their religious identity. And we tend to exclude religion as the source of that behavior., where the same is not being applied to the German muslim kids?

I live in the US, the sort of problems faced by other european nations with their arabs populations is unparalleled to anything going on with ours. In fact muslims in america, tend to represent model citizens, tend to uphold american values, and assimilate to a considerable degree. The closest parallel we have is among the black community. But we're not inclined to imagine the problem here as a religious one.

It is not an apt analogy. Christianity is not the inspiration for high levels of crime in black neighborhoods in the US. Christianity has plenty of writings in its religious text that are poor moral examples, however much of Christianity has reformed and reinterpreted their faith to minimize the impact of those more disreputable parts of their faith. There is still more Christianity needs to do, but if we compare where Islam is, well, there is no comparison. Islam is still stuck in the 800s.


Quote:Have you seen the documentary India's Daughter? The basic attitude towards woman, being described is exemplary of the ones by the rapists, and even by their defense lawyers, who believe that woman invite rape upon themselves by dressing scandalously, for being out late at night, etc..... And here agains it's attitude which is not really possible to blame hinduism for.

We might as well blame moral nihilism, for the inability of secular societies to claim there's anything truly wrong with rape, or senseless acts of violence, for peddling the belief that morality is subjective. In this case it's not religions fault for condoning rape as Ok, but subjective moralities inability to say there's nothing truly not okay about it.

I have not seen that documentary, and I have not looked into the Hindu religion to make a comment on the level of religious motivation for India's.

I will post again what I posted upthread:

Islamic State ruling aims to settle who can have sex with female slaves
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-is...AO20151230


There's your religion. And yes, Isis is an extreme version of Islam, but the mainstream isn't all that much better. They take their queues from their prophet after all, who was by today's standards a pedophile.

Your moral nihilism argument is kind of off track here, but more importantly, there is a flaw in your general line of argument. You essentially are making a "tu quoque" argument--even if we did posit that everything you say is true, so what? If other systems of belief did have the same moral problems, that does not invalidate that supporting abuse of women is wrong.
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