1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
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11-01-2016, 02:22 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 12:54 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 12:39 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Just like there are laws that those refugees agree to follow by seeking asylum in their respective countries. So yeah, you have to respect the host.

You have laws, and you have the consequences associated with getting caught breaking them. If you want to break the law, and take those risks, you likely would. Just like everyone who breaks the law willingly takes that gamble.

No respect required.

It's a good thing you believe in a god. Without that, you would have no reason for being a decent human being in real life. If you even are that. Sad.

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11-01-2016, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2016 03:29 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 02:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  It's a good thing you believe in a god. Without that, you would have no reason for being a decent human being in real life. If you even are that. Sad.

I don't think the question of being a decent human being is a matter of reason at all. It perhaps more accurate to say it's a matter of attraction. If I am good person, or strive to be a good person, or as you put it a "decent" human being, it's because I'm attracted, allured to the sort of life a good person, a "decent" human being represents or embodies.

If I was more attracted to the life of social misfit, the life of a gang member, or ISIS than this life, then it all might be quite different.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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11-01-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 11:06 AM)bemore Wrote:  Cologne attackers were of migrant origin - minister

I would break it down like this...

Are all migrants muslims??? No.

With you so far

Quote:Were the migrants who did these attacks all muslims??? Who know's.

Er...we do know. From the first heading on the story you linked to yourself:
"The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African and Arab, an official report says.".

So...what percentage of migrants from North African or Arab countries are Muslim? Nearly all of them would be. So while we cannot say "all" attacks were carried out by Muslims, we can say a large majority were. Considering Muslims make up such a tiny percentage of the population in Germany, that is enough to show this recent problem in Cologne is an Islam problem.

Quote:Have all of the migrants come from countries that have different cultures and values to the ones in Europe and in Germany??? Yes.

Trivially, that is a true statement. So what? It is irrelevant to the the incidents in Cologne.

Quote:Has Islam played a part in defining the cultures and values of the countries where the migrants have came from??? Some yes, quite strongly, others to a lesser extent.

Is Islam a problem??? Yes, it is part of the problem but there are other factors that also need to be taken into consideration.

Finally, a grudging acknowledgement that we have a problem here with Islam. However you still seem uncomfortable accepting this conclusion considering your citing of "other factors" which are unenumerated and unmentioned in your response.
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11-01-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 09:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 08:56 AM)Dom Wrote:  One needs to focus on cultural indoctrination and the need to respect the customs of a host.

No one is entitled to respect. The host better earn your respect before you afford it to them.

Wrong.
You give respect until there is reason to no longer give that respect. And than you don't go out and sexually assault hundreds of women because fuck your respect, that's called being a descent human being.
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11-01-2016, 04:18 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 10:00 AM)BryanS Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 09:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  Wrong. Look at some of the fundamentalist sects, e.g. Mormons.

Well, I'm not sure what Mormons really are--cult, Christian, or some kind of hybrid. But I am not writing in defense of Christianity.

However please do show me a religious ruling that explains what kinds of rape of your women's slaves is OK by a modern leader of religion. I linked to an Islamic one above. It is absurd to say that the Mormons and all their failings are "just as bad", however bad they are.

They are just as bad.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 10:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 09:59 AM)Chas Wrote:  If the host country doesn't have one's respect, why the fuck emigrate there? Consider

You are talking out your ass again.

Because your parents likely made that choice for you. And since you've grown up here it's unlikely you'd want to start over again somewhere else. It might all come down to the lesser of two evils. American Atheists should understand this right? The sort that often scorn their own country while speaking highly of their European counterparts. Hardly any of them seem particularly inclined to move.

I have lived in two different countries by choice and could move any time.


Quote:So if you're here, and can let out a little bit of steam by wrecking a little bit of havoc and chaos, why not? Who gives a shit that it's offends your particular sensibilities? Your not an authority over them, regardless of how passionately you desire to be.

In a democracy I am, in fact, an authority over lawbreakers. Your position is absurd.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 11:18 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-01-2016 10:22 AM)Eva Wrote:  What has liberal secularism got to do with abiding by the way of life and the law of your chosen nation?

How about when that way of life doesn't particularly appeal to you? What if the way of life that appeals to you is one the undermines the values and beliefs of your chosen nation, rather than one that abides by them? Rather than one that seeks order, it's one that seeks disorder?

Seriously? Why emigrate to a country with a society you don't agree with? That was the question.

Quote:
Quote:Nations have laws, in the UK, these laws are decided by parliament who consist of representatives of the nation as a whole, they are then double checked by the House of Lords before it is passed.

And there's plenty of people who are willing to give the middle finger to whatever set of laws you throw at them. Take those Oregon Ranchers, who showed no reluctance in defying the law. In fact they've been offered no legal reprecussions, as long they leave now.

And if they were not U.S. citizens, they would likely have already been arrested and deported.

Quote:
Quote:If we do not like how those MP's do things we have the opportunity to vote them out. Ya know...democracy. Now if you cause chaos and havoc, groping women and stealing purses and are generally a pain in the ass then you will be prosecuted for flaunting those laws. That's how societies work however many middle fingers are waving around.

Plenty of people get way with flaunting those laws, and in this case you'd have to catch them first. Good luck with that.

The word you want is 'flouting'. Drinking Beverage

Quote:
Quote:And since liberal secularism is the division of church and state WTH has a divine being got to do with anything?

As I said if people do not like the way of life of the place they have moved to they can move elsewhere. Nations do not have to grovel after the respect of newcomers.

And people don't have to grovel to the sensibilities of a nation, particularly when they're not worried about the consequences.

Then they should be deported.

Quote:I mean how many times have people thrown the "move somewhere else" line to atheists who complain about America? They're likely unfazed by it, just like your young European Arab having his fun.

Atheists? The U.S. is a secular democracy. Your position is absurd.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-01-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
(11-01-2016 03:21 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Finally, a grudging acknowledgement that we have a problem here with Islam. However you still seem uncomfortable accepting this conclusion considering your citing of "other factors" which are unenumerated and unmentioned in your response.

It isnt grudging, please look at post 21 in this thread and also this thread of mine.

Whilst islam is the most dominant religion there are other religions, be them christian or others in north africa. I have not done a poll, neither have you of all of the attackers to see what religion they are, so that is why I said who knows as not all of them may be muslim.

My mind is open to other factors, even though I dont know what they are just yet, that may give insight into what happened and the reasons. I'm not satisfied to just blame Islam, even though im sure it plays a very very strong part.

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13-01-2016, 02:49 PM
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
I don't really think this is predominantly a religious issue. In some defense of these men I suppose religious ideology my be cited for a lazy justification in court or perhaps some believed that it was there God-given right to do so. Religion has no monopoly on perversion, however, and in its complete absence it's obvious that rape would still occur. I think its more about culture, race, and retribution rather than religion. Though there is a theme of retribution in Islam.
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18-01-2016, 08:40 PM (This post was last modified: 18-01-2016 08:59 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: 1000 Muslims celebrate New Year in gang attacks on women in Germany
Did anybody think that the attacks were really away of expressing that refugees feel humiliated and poor?

Also this is crazy. Not sure what to make of it.
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