12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-01-2014, 09:29 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:16 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  13. Mormons believe Natives Americans are descended from Israelites. DNA proves this to be false.

I already spent a great deal of time going over this elsewhere, but the takeaway is that this is a reductive mischaracterization of the situation.

Please explain again.

(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  14. No horses, elephants, ore, etc. during the time the BOM supposedly took place.

True.

(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  15. The Book of Mormon is a terribly written piece of literature. If it was the literal, unadulterated word of God, he should go back to College Composition 101.

Maybe by some presentistic aesthetic standards, but it actually fits quite well into then-contemporary conventions about using KJV-sounding language to couch epic charter myths. Another example is The Late War.

So you're saying that God sends his word in the form of the writing style of the period? Even still, I think it was horribly written even by 18th century standards. It has also been heavily revised with almost 4,000 changes to what JS called "the most correct book on earth"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Neither of you appear to offer much beyond your personal experience with the LDS church. Consider

No, I offered more than that, but given that I work at the Church's headquarters, am in daily communication with numerous members and leaders literally around the world, and have taught and led the church in multiple different states and three different continents, I would suggest that my "personal experience with the LDS church" carries a bit more weight than you seem to be suggesting.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:34 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Please explain again.

I'll give you the short, short version: only one traditional and conservative reading of the Book of Mormon (among many), combined with a set of specific assumptions, would require the presence of any Israelite MtDNA from relevant time periods to be found in Native American blood.

(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  So you're saying that God sends his word in the form of the writing style of the period?

I don't believe I said that. Can you point to where I said that, or are you projecting your a priori assumptions about me upon my comments?

(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Even still, I think it was horribly written even by 18th century standards.

What does the 18th century have to do with the Book of Mormon?

(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  It has also been heavily revised with almost 4,000 changes to what JS called "the most correct book on earth"

Relevance to my comments?

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:30 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 09:24 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Neither of you appear to offer much beyond your personal experience with the LDS church. Consider

No, I offered more than that, but given that I work at the Church's headquarters, am in daily communication with numerous members and leaders literally around the world, and have taught and led the church in multiple different states and three different continents, I would suggest that my "personal experience with the LDS church" carries a bit more weight than you seem to be suggesting.


So basically, you're higher up the pile of bullshit and have more experience white-washing and merchandizing this crazy shit. Drinking Beverage

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like EvolutionKills's post
15-01-2014, 09:41 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
I'll give you the short, short version: only one traditional and conservative reading of the Book of Mormon (among many), combined with a set of specific assumptions, would require the presence of any Israelite MtDNA from relevant time periods to be found in Native American blood.


I don't believe I said that. Can you point to where I said that, or are you projecting your a priori assumptions about me upon my comments?

Um yes, you referred me to the common writing style of that period?


What does the 18th century have to do with the Book of Mormon?
19th century, I brain-farted.

(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  It has also been heavily revised with almost 4,000 changes to what JS called "the most correct book on earth"

Relevance to my comments?
[/quote]

Going back to the BoM being an example of poorly written literature.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So basically, you're higher up the pile of bullshit and have more experience white-washing and merchandizing this crazy shit. Drinking Beverage

Well, yeah. What did you expect, EK?

It cannot possibly be literally true. (so, just like all scripture...)
Therefore,
What parts are true, to what extent, and their meaning must be determined by convenience; according to evolving social climate; divine inspiration. (so, just like all scripture...)

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:45 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
Also, do you have link to your first statement regarding Israelite Mito DNA--your statement does not provide enough info.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jaxx's post
15-01-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:38 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So basically, you're higher up the pile of bullshit and have more experience white-washing and merchandizing this crazy shit. Drinking Beverage

I'm the last person you could accuse of white-washing or merchandizing anything. I will give an honest and open assessment of the Church's ideology and practice, whether that means challenging your preconceptions or agreeing with them.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:41 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Um yes, you referred me to the common writing style of that period?

And you said something about "God sending his word." I don't believe I made any reference whatsoever to God sending anything. Going forward I will not be taking the time to spell everything out for you like you're four years old, so you know.

(15-01-2014 09:41 AM)jaxx Wrote:  19th century, I brain-farted.

Gotcha. Now, where did you receive your training in 19th century literary aesthetics?

(15-01-2014 09:29 AM)jaxx Wrote:  Going back to the BoM being an example of poorly written literature.

So which printing are you judging as poor literature, then? Are you saying that good literature is unilaterally unrevised and unedited?

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 09:52 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 09:56 AM by Chas.)
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:16 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  13. Mormons believe Natives Americans are descended from Israelites. DNA proves this to be false.

I already spent a great deal of time going over this elsewhere, but the takeaway is that this is a reductive mischaracterization of the situation.

It is not a mischaracterization. The genetic evidence is utterly convincing to the unbiased.

You seem to be trying to have your cake and eat. You say that it doesn't matter whether the BoM is literally true, or there are different interpretations, yet you try to leave the door open on the genetic evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: