12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-01-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 10:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'd appreciate it if you were to respond to my actual argument for once.

I feel the same way.

(15-01-2014 10:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I have been arguing that you cannot claim that his experiences are "completely false" based on your own experiences because they aren't worth more than his.

I explained exactly what I was arguing in the previous post, and I never once said his experiences were "completely false." I said certain of his declarations of Church policy and practice are completely false. I validated some of his experiences as well, but pointed out that they were not indicative of widespread or official practice or policy, as he presumed to assert.

(15-01-2014 10:43 AM)Vosur Wrote:  You have yet to address this point in any of your responses.

Actually I've addressed it directly. You seem to be content to just ignore what I've written.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 12:23 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:04 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 10:48 AM)jaxx Wrote:  I was not personally attacking you. You entered this thread of your own accord and it would have been naive of you to think that your beliefs would go uncontested. However, referring to my intellectual capacity as that of a 4 year old or my supposed failure to prove that I possess the critical thinking skills to comprehend your "science" is condescending and personally insulting. Very Christian of you.

I'm not referring to your intellectual capacity as that of a four-year-old. That is a quite common colloquialism that simply has reference to the most basic and simple explanations of concepts. I apologize if you took it to be a characterization of your mental capacity. That was not my intention.

After reading this, I had to go back and see what the original post was.

(15-01-2014 09:52 AM)maklelan Wrote:  ...Going forward I will not be taking the time to spell everything out for you like you're four years old...

Ummm, yeah...I have to agree with Jaxx here. That's bitchy, and a direct insult to her intellegence. Your excuss may have been that it's simply a "common colloquialism", but it's a "common colloquialism" one says when they are being an ass.

It being a colloquialism doesn't not make it a shitty thing to say. You don't get to get off simply by saying that.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
15-01-2014, 11:33 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
MAK - So if you did not join for the caring people, and there is horrifying behavior done on the part of LDS, and you view all religions as having somewhat of a mythical basis, then why did you join?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 11:38 AM by IndianAtheist.)
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 10:38 AM)maklelan Wrote:  In precisely the same way Abraham Lincoln was a white supremacist, but this is quite presentistic.
At least lincon didn't start a retarded cult over his personal beliefs on race&ethnicity.
(15-01-2014 11:33 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  MAK - So if you did not join for the caring people, and there is horrifying behavior done on the part of LDS, and you view all religions as having somewhat of a mythical basis, then why did you join?
THEY HAD FREE BEER!! who can resist free beer for a lifetime?

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:17 AM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 10:49 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I do have an entirely respectful question, Dan, if I may ask it ?
Can you briefly tell me, or link me to somewhere where you explain, what is it, with your vast scope of knowledge, that you find essentially "compelling" about the LDS community ? ((I, for example, find European Western (Christian) monasticism "compelling" ... but not essentially "believable", for reasons I'm not sure I can explain .. but I suppose are mostly "aestheic" in nature)).

As far as the community is concerned, I find Latter-day Saints to be among the most sincere and genuinely caring people I've met in the Western World. I did not join the community because of that, but I still greatly appreciate how much I see Latter-day Saints helping others out in the various places around the world that I've traveled. That's not to say there are no uncaring people. I have witnessed some horrifying behavior on the part of Latter-day Saints, and a lot of it I attribute to some of the more unthinking rhetoric that some leaders, local and global, appeal to in their discourse. I do have what Krister Stendahl called "holy envy," however, for certain other religious communities, ideologies, and practices, and I participate to the extent that I'm allowed in a number of different religious festivals and celebrations.

Thanks.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...8465,d.aWc

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:25 AM)maklelan Wrote:  I explained exactly what I was arguing in the previous post, and I never once said his experiences were "completely false." I said certain of his declarations of Church policy and practice are completely false. I validated some of his experiences as well, but pointed out that they were not indicative of widespread or official practice or policy, as he presumed to assert.
Of course you did.

Him: No day will pass without a church related responsibility or demand.
You: Completely false. Not even the bishop has zero free days in a given week. (personal experience)

Him: You will never think for yourself again.
You: Pure rubbish. When I first joined the Church I started going to institute in Dallas, and something that has always undergirded my own education in the Church was a big prominent sign in the middle of the classroom wall that said "Find Out For Yourself." We were encouraged to read and study on our own, and to think for ourselves. (personal experience)

Him: If you discover these tampered parts of the history on your own, you will be openly stonewalled and even punished severely for trying to do anything with that information. Your membership and associated benefits are only available to you if you remain in line at all times.
You: That's not true. You can be ecclesiastically "punished" if you openly and publicly oppose Church leadership regarding the fundamental tenets of Joseph Smith's calling, the inspired nature of the Book of Mormon, and the priesthood authority of contemporary leadership, but even then you've got to be pretty adamant about it. (personal experience)

Do I need to go on?

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Vosur's post
15-01-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:27 AM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 11:04 AM)maklelan Wrote:  I'm not referring to your intellectual capacity as that of a four-year-old. That is a quite common colloquialism that simply has reference to the most basic and simple explanations of concepts. I apologize if you took it to be a characterization of your mental capacity. That was not my intention.

After reading this, I had to go back and see what the original post was.

(15-01-2014 09:52 AM)maklelan Wrote:  ...Going forward I will not be taking the time to spell everything out for you like you're four years old...

Ummm, yeah...I have to agree with Jaxx here. That's bitchy, and a direct insult to her intellegence. You're excuss may have been that it's simply a "common colloquialism", but it's a "common colloquialism" one says when they are being an ass.

It being a colloquialism doesn't not make it a shitty thing to say. You don't get to get off simply by saying that.

^^^I appreciate that RJ Heart

There was also this one that came after I asked for a link to more information regarding his Mito DNA claim:

(15-01-2014 09:53 AM)maklelan Wrote:  No, I'm not getting into this thread-derailing argument again, primarily because you've yet to show me that you can actually think critically about the assumptions you're making about me and any one of my points.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jaxx's post
15-01-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  13. Mormons believe Natives Americans are descended from Israelites. DNA proves this to be false.

Didn't Jesus change their DNA when he darkened their skin? It makes sense, since the trait is passed from generation to generation.


(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  14. No horses, elephants, ore, etc. during the time the BOM supposedly took place.

Whoa! What's this one? I've never heard of this!


(15-01-2014 09:07 AM)jaxx Wrote:  15. The Book of Mormon is a terribly written piece of literature. If it was the literal, unadulterated word of God, he should go back to College Composition 101.

And so it came to pass, God changed his writing style during the 19th century.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RobbyPants's post
15-01-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Him: No day will pass without a church related responsibility or demand.
You: Completely false. Not even the bishop has zero free days in a given week. (personal experience)

No, telling everyone out in the Internets that if you join the LDS Church, no day will pass without a church-related responsibility or demand is a declaration of fact, not an explanation of an experience, even if it is a conclusion drawn from experience (which is nowhere asserted). The poster obviously has not held any really serious callings in the Church, though, and so I simply do not believe that they have ever experienced a week with seven straight days of church-related responsibilities or demands. I have never seen it happen, and I have never heard of it happening. If the poster insists it did happen, which they have not, they are more than welcome to explain to me the circumstances. That will not change the fact that the declaration that anyone here who joins the Church will have to endure that is flatly false.

(15-01-2014 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Him: You will never think for yourself again.
You: Pure rubbish. When I first joined the Church I started going to institute in Dallas, and something that has always undergirded my own education in the Church was a big prominent sign in the middle of the classroom wall that said "Find Out For Yourself." We were encouraged to read and study on our own, and to think for ourselves. (personal experience)

No, "I never thought for myself" is a personal experience. "You will never think for yourself again" is an assertion of fact that is rather easily proven false.

(15-01-2014 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Him: If you discover these tampered parts of the history on your own, you will be openly stonewalled and even punished severely for trying to do anything with that information. Your membership and associated benefits are only available to you if you remain in line at all times.
You: That's not true. You can be ecclesiastically "punished" if you openly and publicly oppose Church leadership regarding the fundamental tenets of Joseph Smith's calling, the inspired nature of the Book of Mormon, and the priesthood authority of contemporary leadership, but even then you've got to be pretty adamant about it. (personal experience)

Do I need to go on?

No, you need to learn the difference between a personal experience, and an assertion that may or may not be based on a personal experience.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 11:45 AM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 11:33 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  MAK - So if you did not join for the caring people, and there is horrifying behavior done on the part of LDS, and you view all religions as having somewhat of a mythical basis, then why did you join?

That's my business, and I've already explained multiple times here that I will not be going into it. Assume all you want about my motivations.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: