12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-01-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:02 PM)maklelan Wrote:  I admit I'm making an assumption about his background, but it is not an uninformed one. If I am wrong about his exposure to the worldwide Church or to the level of calling he's held, he's welcome to correct me.
(15-01-2014 03:02 PM)maklelan Wrote:  It's possible, but I would hesitate to call it plausible, particularly with rather rookie mistakes like calling Kolob a planet that we all lived on in the preexistence. That's Book of Mormon musical-level mischaracterization.
Point taken; I suppose we'll have to wait and see what he has to say about this.

(15-01-2014 03:02 PM)maklelan Wrote:  As I said earlier, in his more measured comments, he did a respectable job of representing what an average Latter-day Saint might believe.
That's why I find it hard to believe that he intended the statements in the first post to be as sweeping as their wording suggests.

I think it would have been a good idea for him to either add "In my experience" in front of every line or to state up-front that he is speaking from experience only so as to avoid potential misunderstandings like this.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  That's why I find it hard to believe that he intended the statements in the first post to be as sweeping as their wording suggests.

It struck me as wildly out of character for him considering the posts of his I'd read previously, but the wording is unambiguous.

(15-01-2014 03:24 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I think it would have been a good idea for him to either add "In my experience" in front of every line or to state up-front that he is speaking from experience only so as to avoid potential misunderstandings like this.

We'll have to see if he deigns to come clarify.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:15 PM)maklelan Wrote:  If that gets your emotional rocks off, presume away.
Yeah its not like you have the balls to defend your unsubstantiated,irrational,racist belief systemDrinking Beverage

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:35 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Yeah its not like you have the balls to defend your unsubstantiated,irrational,racist belief systemDrinking Beverage

You're right. I just cower in the corner and hope you intellectual juggernauts just quietly pass me by. You can see right through me.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes maklelan's post
15-01-2014, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 04:07 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
Makle - Not to get off topic here, but I have a question regarding the LDS.


I'm sure you will agree that - generally speaking - when one wants to determine whether or not information is credible, they consider the source, correct? If the source of that information is discredited, it calls into question the information communicated in its entirety. Do you agree?

However, considering the source of LDS is Joseph Smith, how do you get around his prior conviction of fraud, to not only consider him a credible source, but of his rather presumptuous claim that his information is divinely inspired?

Would you invest your money with a man that was previously convicted of bank fraud? I sure wouldn't. And yet this is exactly what you are doing, investing your life on the word of someone who is a convicted conman. How is JS fraud conviction addressed within LDS?

*edit: I have no personal experience with Mormonism, or mormons for that matter other than a handful of people. My next door neighbors seem to be really involved in the mormon faith and have been nothing but nice to me. We have keys to each other's houses and frequently do favors for each other. I bring in their mail and turn various lights on to make it look like someone is home. They occasionally let the dogs out for me if I'm stuck away from home longer than expected. The wife has been over to hang out on my back deck during the summer while we drank frozen drinks. Hers a virgin, mine alcoholic. She didn't utter a word and I received zero indication that she was silently judging me. They know I'm an atheist and they are cool with it. All and all, they are really cool people and I enjoy conversing with them.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Makle - Not to get off topic here, but I have a question regarding the LDS.

I'm sure you will agree that - generally speaking - when one wants to determine whether or not information is credible, they consider the source, correct? If the source of that information is discredited, it calls into question the information communicated in its entirety. Do you agree?

However, considering the source of LDS is Joseph Smith, how do you get around his prior conviction of fraud, to not only consider him a credible source, but of his rather presumptuous claim that his information is divinely inspired?

Well, first, he was never convicted of anything. I know the Internets are chock full of references to his 1826 hearing that insist up and down he was convicted of a crime, but that's simply not the case. I've already gone over the evidence elsewhere on this website and don't really feel like drudging it all up again. Long story short, when he was a kid he, like many other people, tried his hand at divining the location of treasure. Somebody hauled him before a judge and he had witnesses swear he had a gift and other witnesses swear he was a fraud. The judge decided there was enough for a trial and remanded him to custody, but he was given "leg bail," or told to scram. Whoopie. I've done much worse things than that as a teenager, and I would certainly find it unfair for someone to try to impugn my integrity now on the grounds that I was a kid once.

(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Would you invest your money with a man that was previously convicted of bank fraud? I sure wouldn't. And yet this is exactly what you are doing, investing your life on the word of someone who is a convicted conman.

No, I've never made any decision based solely on the words of Joseph Smith.

(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How is JS fraud conviction addressed within LDS?

Accurately.

My Blog
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 04:12 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:59 PM)maklelan Wrote:  You're right. I just cower in the corner and hope you intellectual juggernauts just quietly pass me by. You can see right through me.
Glad to see the dog knows its place Drinking Beverage

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
Wishful thinking is not evidence
Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
Vague prophecies is not evidence
Data that requires a certain belief is not evidence
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 04:06 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Makle - Not to get off topic here, but I have a question regarding the LDS.

I'm sure you will agree that - generally speaking - when one wants to determine whether or not information is credible, they consider the source, correct? If the source of that information is discredited, it calls into question the information communicated in its entirety. Do you agree?

However, considering the source of LDS is Joseph Smith, how do you get around his prior conviction of fraud, to not only consider him a credible source, but of his rather presumptuous claim that his information is divinely inspired?

Well, first, he was never convicted of anything. I know the Internets are chock full of references to his 1826 hearing that insist up and down he was convicted of a crime, but that's simply not the case. I've already gone over the evidence elsewhere on this website and don't really feel like drudging it all up again. Long story short, when he was a kid he, like many other people, tried his hand at divining the location of treasure. Somebody hauled him before a judge and he had witnesses swear he had a gift and other witnesses swear he was a fraud. The judge decided there was enough for a trial and remanded him to custody, but he was given "leg bail," or told to scram. Whoopie. I've done much worse things than that as a teenager, and I would certainly find it unfair for someone to try to impugn my integrity now on the grounds that I was a kid once.

(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Would you invest your money with a man that was previously convicted of bank fraud? I sure wouldn't. And yet this is exactly what you are doing, investing your life on the word of someone who is a convicted conman.

No, I've never made any decision based solely on the words of Joseph Smith.

(15-01-2014 04:00 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  How is JS fraud conviction addressed within LDS?

Accurately.

OK. so my take away here is that the LDS believes he was wrongly convicted, or that somehow history is wrong? Consider

Since I live in NY, I have personally gone to Wayne County and looked up the records. Whether or not you minimize what he has done, or if you believe that the charges were bogus, the fact of the matter is that he was, in fact, convicted of fraud by a trial of his peers.

Correction: I meant I have been to Wayne county to see the supposed birthplace of LDS. I have gone to Chenango county to view the court record.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 04:19 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 04:12 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 03:59 PM)maklelan Wrote:  You're right. I just cower in the corner and hope you intellectual juggernauts just quietly pass me by. You can see right through me.
Glad to see the dog knows its place Drinking Beverage

I find this insulting to dogs. my K9 is my partner. Not my inferior, or my property, or something that should "know its place" Unless, of course, its place is right by my side.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: 12 Reasons You Should Reject Mormonism
(15-01-2014 03:59 PM)maklelan Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 03:35 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  Yeah its not like you have the balls to defend your unsubstantiated,irrational,racist belief systemDrinking Beverage

You're right. I just cower in the corner and hope you intellectual juggernauts just quietly pass me by. You can see right through me.


You still whining? In what thread are you Not whining?
LOL

jesus
Weeping

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: