12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
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27-11-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
This is my last and final opinion on the subject. It's possible it could have been handled a lot differently and the kid could have lived. Its a sad tragedy and my heart goes out to the victims family but at the same time I can see why the cop did what he did, they had no idea if the gun was real or not, they had no idea what kind of harm the kid could had brought onto people and they were just protecting their own lives and others lives. Like Hughsie said, it could have been a lose-lose situation for the cops. They could have tried and treated it as a fake gun but in the end they were just trying to protect themselves and the lives of others. I doubt it was because of racial issues.

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27-11-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:13 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 03:06 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  You're telling me that there is absolutely no way to immobilize an armed person without killing him?

Boy, there should be many more deaths by cops' gunshots then.

Taser but in a situation where your rolling up and seeing someone going for a gun in their waistband, cops don't tend to go for the taser because a suspect could still shoot someone as they are being tased.

Yeah, cops try to defend themselves and immobilize the person, not kill the person.

For fuck's sake, there are tasers that can shoot from a distance, there are rubber bullets, there are dogs. There were thousands of better ways to handle the situation.

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27-11-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:34 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 03:13 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Taser but in a situation where your rolling up and seeing someone going for a gun in their waistband, cops don't tend to go for the taser because a suspect could still shoot someone as they are being tased.

Yeah, cops try to defend themselves and immobilize the person, not kill the person.

For fuck's sake, there are tasers that can shoot from a distance, there are rubber bullets, there are dogs. There were thousands of better ways to handle the situation.

Tasers possible, they dont usually carry rubber bullets in their sidearms and if the gun were real the kid could have killed someone before they could access a weapon with rubber bullets, they were also not a K9 unit, again the kid if the gun were real could have killed someone before a K9 unit got there, their only options was shoot or taser.

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27-11-2014, 03:55 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:50 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 03:34 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Yeah, cops try to defend themselves and immobilize the person, not kill the person.

For fuck's sake, there are tasers that can shoot from a distance, there are rubber bullets, there are dogs. There were thousands of better ways to handle the situation.

Tasers possible, they dont usually carry rubber bullets in their sidearms and if the gun were real the kid could have killed someone before they could access a weapon with rubber bullets, they were also not a K9 unit, again the kid if the gun were real could have killed someone before a K9 unit got there, their only options was shoot or taser.

These things may not have been available to them, but they should be. That's what I'm saying.

You are missing the point. Why are we focusing on the "what if the kid killed someone" scenario? Well, what if the police thought you had a gun while you had no idea and you tried to get your phone from your pocket and you got shot?

Do you want to live in a world where the only way the police can stop you is by killing you? Cops should be better trained than that.

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27-11-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, you don't pull a taser when someone has a gun.

A gun gives you multiple shots, vs taser you have 1-2. A taser may not penetrate thick clothing and definitely not a coat. You have to be in close range for a taser. The person pointing the gun at you now has the opportunity to shoot you because oh shit your taser was ineffective.

Moral of the story - don't go waving guns or realistic fake gun in people's faces, you'll end up getting shot.

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27-11-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:55 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 03:50 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Tasers possible, they dont usually carry rubber bullets in their sidearms and if the gun were real the kid could have killed someone before they could access a weapon with rubber bullets, they were also not a K9 unit, again the kid if the gun were real could have killed someone before a K9 unit got there, their only options was shoot or taser.

These things may not have been available to them, but they should be. That's what I'm saying.

You are missing the point. Why are we focusing on the "what if the kid killed someone" scenario? Well, what if the police thought you had a gun while you had no idea and you tried to get your phone from your pocket and you got shot?

Do you want to live in a world where the only way the police can stop you is by killing you?

Well 1. if the police pulled up to me with their guns drawn I wouldn't reach for anything, I'd put my hands up. That's common sense. Your right though, more non lethal options should be available to all cops, I do not disagree with you on that.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-11-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:50 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 03:34 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Yeah, cops try to defend themselves and immobilize the person, not kill the person.

For fuck's sake, there are tasers that can shoot from a distance, there are rubber bullets, there are dogs. There were thousands of better ways to handle the situation.

Tasers possible, they dont usually carry rubber bullets in their sidearms and if the gun were real the kid could have killed someone before they could access a weapon with rubber bullets, they were also not a K9 unit, again the kid if the gun were real could have killed someone before a K9 unit got there, their only options was shoot or taser.

Dude had grizzly bear incapacitating pepper spray immediately at hand and his excuse for using his gun instead of it was it could've sprayed back in his face. Dude should never been allowed to be a cop.

#sigh
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27-11-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 04:00 PM)Nurse Wrote:  You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, you don't pull a taser when someone has a gun.

A gun gives you multiple shots, vs taser you have 1-2. A taser may not penetrate thick clothing and definitely not a coat. You have to be in close range for a taser. The person pointing the gun at you now has the opportunity to shoot you because oh shit your taser was ineffective.

Moral of the story - don't go waving guns or realistic fake gun in people's faces, you'll end up getting shot.

Yabut, it was a 12 year old kid who had no idea that it was a stupid thing to do.

Maybe I'm biased because of a 15 year old kid that was shot and killed by a cop simply for throwing stuff at the police car here a few years ago.

But seriously, it was just a kid, even if it was a real gun, there's just something seriously wrong about pointing your gun at a 12 year old.

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27-11-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 03:24 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  This is my last and final opinion on the subject.

Why you wanna bail? This thread is actually a civil discourse. That's a rare bird in these parts. Why you wanna bail?

#sigh
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27-11-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
Even a taser wasn't a hugely viable option. The cops already had their guns drawn (as is standard I believe), the kid was reaching for his waistband. The time it would take to holster their guns and pull out tasers woulda given him a chance to fire at least a couple of shots. It also risky to taser someone holding a gun as the electrical charge can cause them to involuntarily pull the trigger, firing the weapons.

As for shooting being a first resort; generally it isn't and no-one hear is saying it is. Usually the cops will exhaust all sorts of alternatives before they fire their guns. If you pull up and someone is literally reaching for what you believe to be a weapon though then those options go out of the window. They all take at least a few seconds longer and those seconds can be the difference between life and death for anyone in the vicinity. You'd have to be crazy to take risks like this.

Tbh though, these situations happen all the time (cops get report of idiot with weapon, turn up, shoot uncooperative idiot who's a potential threat) and no-one has any issue with it. The only difference here is the idiot's age, and the fact that the weapon turned out to be fake. If that is part of the reasoning then it is the outcome that is being criticised and not the procedure itself. Once you are criticising the outcome the cops are automatically blameless, they didn't have the hindsight.

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