12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
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27-11-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 11:18 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 11:12 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you call waving a weapon around and so potentially endangering the lives of every person in the vicinity "no good reason" then I don't think we're gonna agree on this.

Perhaps we should take away all the police's weapons, arm them with hugs, and leave anyone who won't be placated by a hug free to do as they please?

Of course, I'm sure you wouldn't take this approach if you were walking down the street and someone pointed a gun at you.

When the cops showed up he was just sitting on a bench with the gun in his waistband. I'd be willing to bet he got scared when the cruiser pulled straight up on the grass next to him and he was reaching for the gun saying, "Wait! Look, it's only a BB g-"-BLAM!!!!

Nice work, rookie. Let's go get some coffee.

Well, whether the weapon was real or not is irrelevant when assessing the officer's actions. They had no reason to think that it wasn't and even if they did, they should treat any potential weapon as though it's a real one if they are unsure. So we'll divorce that from the situation.

Say you're the cop, it's your life in the line, it's your kids who will grow up fatherless if anything happens to you, it's you who will be to blame if a passerby gets killed. You get a report of a youth pointing a gun at people in street. You get there fast as you can, you see said youth on your arrival and exit the car, drawing your weapon. You instruct him to surrender but he isn't doing so. At what point do you pull the trigger? When he reaches for his weapon? When he's holding his weapon? When he points it at someone? When he's already fired off a few shots? When half of the people in the vicinity are already dead?

If you said anything other than "when he reaches for his weapon" I'm glad that you aren't a cop near me. If you wait for him to point the weapon you are blatantly endangering your own life and those of everyone around you. If you you wait until he's holding the weapon then he's already got it out in the open and is potentially milliseconds from killing someone. If his reflexes are faster than yours, or you miss with your first shot, someone may be killed.

It basically comes down to what you prioritise more, the life of the guy with the weapon, or the innocent lives around him. Prioritising them equally isn't even an option because your actions will prioritise one side whether you like it or not. I think the innocent lives should be the priority.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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27-11-2014, 12:22 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
Jesus man. Did you watch the video? I'm not arguing that what you're saying is wrong, but that it's irrelevant to this tragedy. The cops took no time to assess the situation, and essentially created a violent scenario in which they thought they were in danger and needed to dive out of the car firing.

The cops fucked the whole thing up. The stupid kid didn't help matters any, but a properly trained police officer shouldn't have done what they did.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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27-11-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 11:18 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 11:12 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you call waving a weapon around and so potentially endangering the lives of every person in the vicinity "no good reason" then I don't think we're gonna agree on this.

Perhaps we should take away all the police's weapons, arm them with hugs, and leave anyone who won't be placated by a hug free to do as they please?

Of course, I'm sure you wouldn't take this approach if you were walking down the street and someone pointed a gun at you.

When the cops showed up he was just sitting on a bench with the gun in his waistband. I'd be willing to bet he got scared when the cruiser pulled straight up on the grass next to him and he was reaching for the gun saying, "Wait! Look, it's only a BB g-"-BLAM!!!!

Nice work, rookie. Let's go get some coffee.

Actually he got up long before the cops reached him, he shouldn't have walked towards the police car reaching for the gun in his waistband. If he would have stayed sitting down or not reach for the gun things would have been different.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-11-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 12:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 11:18 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  When the cops showed up he was just sitting on a bench with the gun in his waistband. I'd be willing to bet he got scared when the cruiser pulled straight up on the grass next to him and he was reaching for the gun saying, "Wait! Look, it's only a BB g-"-BLAM!!!!

Nice work, rookie. Let's go get some coffee.

Actually he got up long before the cops reached him, he shouldn't have walked towards the police car reaching for the gun in his waistband. If he would have stayed sitting down or not reach for the gun things would have been different.

Yes, he got up because there was a cop car headed straight for him. Prior to that he was just sitting there. Contrast this video with the one with the old drunk guy. When you see that first patrol car pull up, he realizes what's going on and then backs the fuck up to a safe perimeter in order to assess the situation.

And everyone in that scenario got to make it home alive.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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27-11-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 12:41 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 12:29 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Actually he got up long before the cops reached him, he shouldn't have walked towards the police car reaching for the gun in his waistband. If he would have stayed sitting down or not reach for the gun things would have been different.

Yes, he got up because there was a cop car headed straight for him. Prior to that he was just sitting there. Contrast this video with the one with the old drunk guy. When you see that first patrol car pull up, he realizes what's going on and then backs the fuck up to a safe perimeter in order to assess the situation.

And everyone in that scenario got to make it home alive.

The old drunk guy wasn't waiving his gun around and didn't make a motion like he was possibly going to shoot the gun at police. The reason they pulled up so close to the kid was probably because they thought he wasn't a threat but as they got closer the kid was walking towards them reaching for the gun in his waistband, they probably feared for their saftey and lives by then and took action. It's sad that a child had to die but if someone is walking towards you reaching for a gun in their waistband, not knowing if its real or fake, your going to take it as a threat.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-11-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 11:12 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Perhaps we should take away all the police's weapons, arm them with hugs, and leave anyone who won't be placated by a hug free to do as they please?

Sounds like you're describing your bobbies. How many deaths in England from a bobby shooting someone? In the last 3 years, zero. In the last 10 years, 23. Why do you think that is? 'CAUSE YOUR COPS DON'T CARRY GUNS!

Not sure you're particularly qualified to comment on this given those statistics.

#sigh
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27-11-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 01:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 11:12 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  Perhaps we should take away all the police's weapons, arm them with hugs, and leave anyone who won't be placated by a hug free to do as they please?

Sounds like you're describing your bobbies. How many deaths in England from a bobby shooting someone? In the last 3 years, zero. In the last 10 years, 23. Why do you think that is? 'CAUSE YOUR COPS DON'T CARRY GUNS!

Not sure you're particularly qualified to comment on this given those statistics.

Sorry but in 2012 an unarmed man was shot and killed by a police officer in England.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-25759909

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-11-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 01:21 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 01:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sounds like you're describing your bobbies. How many deaths in England from a bobby shooting someone? In the last 3 years, zero. In the last 10 years, 23. Why do you think that is? 'CAUSE YOUR COPS DON'T CARRY GUNS!

Not sure you're particularly qualified to comment on this given those statistics.

Sorry but in 2012 an unarmed man was shot and killed by a police officer in England.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-25759909

This is where I got those numbers.

#sigh
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27-11-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 01:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 01:21 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Sorry but in 2012 an unarmed man was shot and killed by a police officer in England.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-25759909

This is where I got those numbers.

Well thy are not good at keeping records then because the 2012 category should have 1.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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27-11-2014, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2014 01:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: 12 Year Old Fatally Shot by Police (in Ohio)
(27-11-2014 01:25 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(27-11-2014 01:23 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  This is where I got those numbers.

Well thy are not good at keeping records then because the 2012 category should have 1.

They're measuring in fiscal years not calendar years. So that guy was one of 2 in FY 12 (2011/12). But you're right, I should've said the last 2 or 2.5 years not 3. Doesn't diminish the point I was making though.

#sigh
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