12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-05-2012, 06:24 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Hey earmuffs, don't make me change your rep... Banks are bad, I am a bank hating Nazi! You shall all hate banks or else...

Do not fuck with me!

Big Grin

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 07:16 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Ok I'll play along and watch the video.

*watches video*

Extremely interesting. They certainly don't teach that in my commerce degree...

It doesn't explain how banks create money from thin air though.
If you can't pay then the bank will take your shit, so that isn't creating money either but rather taking your assets and transferring them to them. So still, no money has been created.
Banker starts with $100, you start with $0 and a house. Banker lends you $100 at 10% interest. You pay $100 back but can't pay 10%. Banker takes your house. Banker ends up with $100 + House. You end up with $0.
Obviously it is pretty shitty, but still no money created from thin air, hence I stand by my comments good sir. Big Grin

It explains the ever increasing divide between rich and poor pretty well I think. And yeah the idea that people ow more then they earn is pretty scary, I think that is the point beyond recession. When that happens you're are pretty much fucked. The only way out of that, that I can think of, is banks would have to simply whip debt or drastically shrink it. The consequences if they didn't would be a complete collapse of the entire system.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 07:17 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(17-05-2012 06:24 AM)Filox Wrote:  Hey earmuffs, don't make me change your rep... Banks are bad, I am a bank hating Nazi! You shall all hate banks or else...

Do not fuck with me!

Big Grin
My bank is giving me interest free loans at the moment so they're alright in my books for now. Smile

Also, where do you keep your savings? In a bank? Tongue

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(16-05-2012 07:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  They make money out of thin air?
Hmmm, I wonder why banks can go bust and collapse then?

And here I was making the assumption that a bank worked like follows.
1) Has money
2) Buys your house for you, you then pay the bank back with weekly/fortnightly payments.
3) You pay interest on these payments (at the moment here it's 5.45%).
4) This 5.45% is the banks profits.
5) Bank has money + 5.45%
6) Bank lends to more people with more money
7) Bank earns more money on interest
8) ???
9) profit.

The bank gets the money to buy the house from people putting money in the bank. Only 10% of that money legally needs to be readily available for withdrawal. So the rest, the 90% of peoples savings, are what the bank uses to buy the house. Your bank account is only numbers, they effectively work by limiting how much you can withdraw from the 10%, this way some one who withdrawals more then 10% is balanced by someone withdrawing less.

Only the reserve bank can create money little girl.
Not to mention creating money increases inflation effectively devaluing the dollar so it is not in the best interest of millionaires to cause high inflation. Or anyone for that matter.
Sort of. When you take out a loan the bank calculates all the money that will be paid back w/ interest into their books. Borrow 10,000 and wind up with 1000 in interest and the bank immediately assumes that now instead of having 10000 on the books they have 11000. They will loan out that assumed 11000 even though there is a chance you might default and never pay it back.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 07:59 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Savings? You must be joking, who has savings today? I spend everything I earn every month, there are no savings, plus, if I had any, I would use that for new types of business investments, not keep it in a bank. I tend to avoid bank as much as it is possible.


:::serious face ON:::


About your story, when you say "a banker starts with 100$", where did he get that 100$? Someone had to give/loan it to this bank. That someone can be another bank or some poor rich fella that is "saving" his money in that bank. A bank then can take 90% of that "savings" money and use it for their new business transactions or to give out new loans to some poor poor person. A bank does not "have" money to begin with, nor does it "make" money, it takes money on loan from the other, bigger bank and from it's clients as well. So it is creating debt to have money, therefore money=debt.

Quote:Only the reserve bank can create money little girl.

And this would mean what? Yes, you are correct, BUT the American Federal Reserve Bank is a PRIVATE bank, not state owned. It prints out money bills and gets government bonds in return. It does not have the collateral for the money it prints. That money is made from thin air, as nothing supports it's value (there is no gold in their vaults), so therefore money=thin air.

This is not some Zeitgeist bullshit, this is modern economy 101.

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Filox's post
17-05-2012, 08:13 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
I line my jackets with my savings. Tongue

All 20 quid of it!

[Image: opforum1.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(17-05-2012 07:47 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(16-05-2012 07:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  They make money out of thin air?
Hmmm, I wonder why banks can go bust and collapse then?

And here I was making the assumption that a bank worked like follows.
1) Has money
2) Buys your house for you, you then pay the bank back with weekly/fortnightly payments.
3) You pay interest on these payments (at the moment here it's 5.45%).
4) This 5.45% is the banks profits.
5) Bank has money + 5.45%
6) Bank lends to more people with more money
7) Bank earns more money on interest
8) ???
9) profit.

The bank gets the money to buy the house from people putting money in the bank. Only 10% of that money legally needs to be readily available for withdrawal. So the rest, the 90% of peoples savings, are what the bank uses to buy the house. Your bank account is only numbers, they effectively work by limiting how much you can withdraw from the 10%, this way some one who withdrawals more then 10% is balanced by someone withdrawing less.

Only the reserve bank can create money little girl.
Not to mention creating money increases inflation effectively devaluing the dollar so it is not in the best interest of millionaires to cause high inflation. Or anyone for that matter.
Sort of. When you take out a loan the bank calculates all the money that will be paid back w/ interest into their books. Borrow 10,000 and wind up with 1000 in interest and the bank immediately assumes that now instead of having 10000 on the books they have 11000. They will loan out that assumed 11000 even though there is a chance you might default and never pay it back.
Ahhh now see that is almost creating money from thin air.
Except that it doesn't work exactly like that.
You have to remember that there is an overall amount of money that the bank uses so that losses are balanced by profits.

For example.

The bank has $10,000.
You borrow $10,000 at 10% interest and buy a $10,000 house.

If the bank started with only $10,000 then the bank has to wait until you pay your loan back of $11,000 before it can loan that $11,000 to the next person.
This is because a bank is still bound under law.

You see when a bank writes down that it has $11,000 after lending you $10,000 it uses $11,000 from the big pool of money to lend out to the next person.

Umm.. Ok. Look at it like this. Say I have a big box that can hold lots of stuff. Say everyone has a ton of blue poker like chips but no place to store them. I advertise that I will look after your chips and so everyone puts their chips into my box. In return I note how much chips everyone put into my big box and give them a piece of paper with that number on it. Now because everyone only uses a few chips at a time I put 10% of those blue chips into a smaller box. Now, people can come with their piece of paper and ask to take some money out or put some money in. Those transactions are done through the smaller box. As some people take out little amounts others put in little amounts or whatever, it all balances out. (You take out 5 chips, I put in 5 chips). Now that 90% is what I have to play with.
Say that 90% contains 90chips. You come to me and ask to borrow 10chips to buy a house. I agree but say at a 10% interest. I then give that guy 10 chips and make a piece of paper showing he owes me 11chips. This means that in time I will have 91chips. Now I can see where the idea of thin air comes from, but allow me to finish. Say I write down I now have 91 chips to play with. Someone comes along and I lend them 11chips at 1chip interest.
In the mean time you default. So I take your house. say you payed nothing and your house was worth 10chips. That debt that I created in the first time is wiped. In total I would have 79 chips with the promise of 12 chips. Now say that person pays back their debt, in total I have made a profit of 1 chip. However say that your house is only worth 5chips due to a drop in the market. In total I would now have a loss of 4chips, 86chips.

You see, it works because you have 90chips and you are only lending out a fraction of that so you can afford to lend out a bit more of the total pot next time. The losses are balanced out by the profits, in the previous example the loan of 11chips balances out the loss of the 10chip loan. It is all about balance. In the end no money is created from thin air, it is all transfer of money or asset from the borrower to the lender.

Because banks are bound by law say I was to make 9 10 loan chips. I would not be able to give out another loan because my real money, not the 99chips written on paper I expect to have at 10% once all repayments are made, is non-exsistant. Say they each make a payment of 1chip each a week, after a week I would have 9 chips real money and so would be able to lend out 9chips that week.
Banks are a business, if they make loses, say all 9 loans default and I can only sell the houses for 5chips each then I will have at the end 45chips of which real money to loan out, a loss of 45chips.


The point of my long winded example is that the pool of everybodies money that they have in the bank is what gives the bank the ability to do this which in turn gives impression or appearance of creating money from thin air, BUT because banks are under the same law as any other business no real money is actually created. It is all just like your bank account, numbers on a bit paper, you can manipulate the numbers on the paper but at the end of the end of the day there is only a certain number of blue poker chips that you actually have.

aka: No money is created from thin air.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 08:30 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(17-05-2012 07:59 AM)Filox Wrote:  Savings? You must be joking, who has savings today? I spend everything I earn every month, there are no savings, plus, if I had any, I would use that for new types of business investments, not keep it in a bank. I tend to avoid bank as much as it is possible.


:::serious face ON:::


About your story, when you say "a banker starts with 100$", where did he get that 100$? Someone had to give/loan it to this bank. That someone can be another bank or some poor rich fella that is "saving" his money in that bank. A bank then can take 90% of that "savings" money and use it for their new business transactions or to give out new loans to some poor poor person. A bank does not "have" money to begin with, nor does it "make" money, it takes money on loan from the other, bigger bank and from it's clients as well. So it is creating debt to have money, therefore money=debt.

Quote:Only the reserve bank can create money little girl.

And this would mean what? Yes, you are correct, BUT the American Federal Reserve Bank is a PRIVATE bank, not state owned. It prints out money bills and gets government bonds in return. It does not have the collateral for the money it prints. That money is made from thin air, as nothing supports it's value (there is no gold in their vaults), so therefore money=thin air.

This is not some Zeitgeist bullshit, this is modern economy 101.
He gets that $100 from buying someones money. Remember that the banks do pay interest on money you have in the bank. So while he has $100 in the bank at say 2% interest after a year he would $102.
The bank would then loan his $90 ($10 for withdrawal) at 15% making a $1.50 profit.

Buying, selling.

It is no different then buying store stock at a certain price and selling it to us, the customer, at a higher price.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 09:29 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
I still think that all banks and bankers and the whole banking system needs to die for the humanity to make the new step forward.

You see, they do buy/sell money almost like all other products are being sold, but today we have a world economic crises. Everyone is getting hungry, people are loosing jobs, yet the banks are thriving. And what do they do, do they make the interest rates lower? No, they make it higher, because it's a crises, all the prices are going up, so why wouldn't they lift their own as well? No matter that they are not the one in crises, but are the ones responsible for the whole thing. They are the ones that have manipulated the whole system into this BS we have today. They are the ones that control all the money and the money flow. And they are ALL private companies that care about profit only. Also, I am being forced to use the banks, my civil rights have been violated and manipulated because I do not have any other option of getting my monthly pay check, except to my bank account. I am FORCED to be their client. FORCED!

There is no other industry/company/business that is forcing me like that.

Take all that into consideration. I do not have a credit card, I do not have any debt, I do not have any mortgage, I do not have any credit. Yet, they are still fucking with me and my money, a few months ago they have just decided that the upkeep of my account is around 1$ a month. Yes, it is only 1$, but I did not have that when I signed a contract with the bank, nor do I want to give them MY 1$. It's not just one dollar a month, it is one dollar a month X all their clients, so it's tons of money every month and nobody ever said a word about that. Do they pay taxes for that money? Why did they just now start to take it? Why do they need more money from me, when they have my pay check and all my money to use for their risky business while they are "saving" it for me? Do they really need to charge me double?

I have a problem with control, or should I say, when someone has control over MY things and MY money and I can not avoid that. I have earned that 1$, they did not! It is a matter of principle, not that lousy 1$.

[Image: a6505fe8.jpg]
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
-Hunter S. Thompson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-05-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(17-05-2012 09:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  I still think that all banks and bankers and the whole banking system needs to die for the humanity to make the new step forward.
I'll go get my spiked baseball bat.

[Image: opforum1.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes frankiej's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: