12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
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17-05-2012, 06:44 PM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(17-05-2012 09:29 AM)Filox Wrote:  I still think that all banks and bankers and the whole banking system needs to die for the humanity to make the new step forward.

You see, they do buy/sell money almost like all other products are being sold, but today we have a world economic crises. Everyone is getting hungry, people are loosing jobs, yet the banks are thriving. And what do they do, do they make the interest rates lower? No, they make it higher, because it's a crises, all the prices are going up, so why wouldn't they lift their own as well? No matter that they are not the one in crises, but are the ones responsible for the whole thing. They are the ones that have manipulated the whole system into this BS we have today. They are the ones that control all the money and the money flow. And they are ALL private companies that care about profit only. Also, I am being forced to use the banks, my civil rights have been violated and manipulated because I do not have any other option of getting my monthly pay check, except to my bank account. I am FORCED to be their client. FORCED!

There is no other industry/company/business that is forcing me like that.

Take all that into consideration. I do not have a credit card, I do not have any debt, I do not have any mortgage, I do not have any credit. Yet, they are still fucking with me and my money, a few months ago they have just decided that the upkeep of my account is around 1$ a month. Yes, it is only 1$, but I did not have that when I signed a contract with the bank, nor do I want to give them MY 1$. It's not just one dollar a month, it is one dollar a month X all their clients, so it's tons of money every month and nobody ever said a word about that. Do they pay taxes for that money? Why did they just now start to take it? Why do they need more money from me, when they have my pay check and all my money to use for their risky business while they are "saving" it for me? Do they really need to charge me double?

I have a problem with control, or should I say, when someone has control over MY things and MY money and I can not avoid that. I have earned that 1$, they did not! It is a matter of principle, not that lousy 1$.
Nobody is forcing you. You think they are but you do have options. Yes your work may insist that it goes into a bank account but that is only because it is easier or what they are use too.
Nobody is then forcing you to keep the money in the bank account. But why do we keep it in a bank account? security and interest. The security alone is worth keeping it in a bank account rather then in your mattress.
So IMO you should pay that $1, it is afterall $1 for piece of mind that your money is safe (and often guaranteed by the government). If you don't like it, change bank or close the account.
And yes there is, you're using an internet company right now along with a power company. But still, nobody is forcing you to use these services, it is entirely your own choice. But because of the consequences if we don't, we do choice too use them. If you don't like it I'm sure the Amish will welcome you with open arms.

At the end of the day it is a business and you cannot blame them for turning a profit in an economic crisis And you can't put the entirity of the blame on them for the crisis to begin with. The government should have known better as should have had the American people, getting 3 mortgages and buying up a couple houses on minimum wage is just plain stupid.

And they don't make the interest rates, well they do tack on some obviously as their profit, but interest rates fluctuate. If your interest rates are going up there will be several factors taking that into account, the bank just doesn't wake up in the morning and decide to charge everyone 10%.

And I can tell you know, as someone who lives in a country with a government owned bank and several private owned banks, that the government own bank is no different. You forget that they too have to make a profit. Bankers run banks, it makes no difference if it is a government owned bank or a private owned bank.

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17-05-2012, 11:42 PM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
First, there are no government owned banks in my country anymore, they have sold out everything. Secondly, there are no more Croatian banks in my country, they have sold everything to foreign banks. There is only the main Bank of Croatia, and that is not a bank for us, normal citizens.

They are forcing me to be a part of banking system, because the law is there and it is telling me I can not get my check if it is not on a bank account.

3 months ago I did not had to pay 1$ for anything, I made and signed a contract with the bank and my account maintenance was free of charge for about 5 years as I was their client.

Now, in the middle of the economic crises, they decide to make up something new to take more money, so they start taking 1$ from every client every month.

The government is equaly to blame as the bank for the whole situation, because they do everything in agreement with one another.

And I do not keep my money in a bank, when I get my check, I go to the first ATM and make a withdraw of all my money. Fuck that shit, I ain't loosing my money because some idiot is going to make some mistake and they will go bankrupt and loose my money. And their interest rate for my money is so small, I wouldn't ever feel that, so I do not really care about that.

The government and the banks never guarantee you 100% of your money. It's more like 10% is guaranteed, all else is a calculated risk and if the bank fails, your money fails as well, at least the 90% of it. So feel secure as much as you want, with your 10%... This, of course, may be different from country to country, but I live in a mafia ruled Balkan region...

And the banking system IS the one responsible for the WORLD WIDE crises, because they are all connected, they all lead to one huge bank who rules them all. If that was not the case, then some countries would be in a crises, some wouldn't. Oh wait, some countries do not have a crises today, lets see which ones... Cuba, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the surrounding area... Guess what, Cuba and Venezuela have thrown out the World Bank from their countries and Middle East Muslim countries have Bank of Islam to thank for their business. Isn't it interesting how those who are not under the World Bank umbrella, don't suffer the economic crises? And guess who else isnt' there? The Vatican. Why? Because the have Bank of Vatican, not World Bank.

Imagine that...

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18-05-2012, 01:22 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
OK I will feel secure with my money in a bank account and you can feel secure with your money in your wallet, the same wallet you accidentally left at a restaurant once or the same wallet that 'dissapeared' from your pocket at a train station. Yes you're absolutely right, I am the unsecure one.

Quote: And the banking system IS the one responsible for the WORLD WIDE crises,
because they are all connected, they all lead to one huge bank who
rules them all. If that was not the case, then some countries would be
in a crises, some wouldn't. Oh wait, some countries do not have a crises
today, lets see which ones... Cuba, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and the
surrounding area... Guess what, Cuba and Venezuela have thrown out the
World Bank from their countries and Middle East Muslim countries have
Bank of Islam to thank for their business. Isn't it interesting how
those who are not under the World Bank umbrella, don't suffer the
economic crises? And guess who else isnt' there? The Vatican. Why?
Because the have Bank of Vatican, not World Bank.
Wrong. The American banking system is particularly to blame for the world crisis. The American people are and the American government are also to blame.

And it is a little thing called globalization. Look it up because your argument is full of holes.

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18-05-2012, 02:08 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
I do not live in a country where people get robbed that often. And I do not use public transportation, plus I take care of my things, I don't leave them around. Also, I leave my money home, take only what I need.

As for the globalization, yes, it is globalization and it is all connected. Yes, the USA is to blame for a lot of things, as the main players in these banks and the banks themselves are from USA. But every government who allowed someone to influence them and therefore fucked up their own people for it, is to blame.

But I do see how countries who have escaped that globalization have freed themselves from the problems we have.

Of course my arguments are full of holes, because we are casually talking, not making this a serious conspiracy thread with 100 pages of theories and evidences.

As for the World Bank and you blaming USA, guess where the headquarters of the World Bank are... Washington DC. So you didn't say anything different than I did, you just formulated it a bit different.

J.P. Morgan is also in the USA, Wall Street.

Anyway, enough of this, sooner or later the whole system will either collapse, or they will change. This is not sustainable state.

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18-05-2012, 04:27 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Quote: I do not live in a country where people get robbed that often. And I do
not use public transportation, plus I take care of my things, I don't
leave them around. Also, I leave my money home, take only what I need.
And if your house burns down or gets robbed? Earthquake? whatever, pick your poison.
My point is your money is a million times safer in a bank then stuffed in your mattress. You might not trust bankers but that is reality.

Quote: As for the globalization, yes, it is globalization and it is all
connected. Yes, the USA is to blame for a lot of things, as the main
players in these banks and the banks themselves are from USA. But every
government who allowed someone to influence them and therefore fucked up
their own people for it, is to blame.
"Fucked up their own people". How ignorant.
Let me tell you a little thing about efficiency.
Country A has 1000 units of land.
Country B has 1000 units of land.

Two things can be produced. Product X and product Y.
Country A is very good at producing product X and produces 2 units of X for every unit of land it dedicates to it where as it only produces 1 unit of Y for every 1 unit of land.
Country B is very good at producing product Y, same as Country A but for product Y.

So, in a world without trading both countries need 500 units of X and 500 of Y just to survive.
This means that both countries have to allocate 500 units of land to both product X and Y. (because the product they're not good at making has to use 500 units of land to produce 500 units, thus leaving 500 left.)

In total this would mean 1500 of X and 1500 of Y are produced.

BUT

What about a world with trading?
Country A dedicates all its 1000 units of land to product X producing 2000 units of product X.
Country B uses 1000 units of land to produce 2000 units of product Y.

In total 2000 units of X and 2000 units of Y are produced.

You see, by opening your borders to international trade you open can allocate your resources far far more efficiently. Yes you may lose industries (Detroit's a good example) (Here in New Zealand before 1986 we use to produce cars, TVs and much much more but now we don't) but you lose the inefficient ones and in the long run your country is far far better off. More efficient industries means higher GDP growth.

So no, it is not "fucking over their own people" but rather quite the opposite.


You shouldn't make assumptions "oh all bankers are criminals" based on half truths and a complete lack of evidence and understanding simply because you have to pay a measly $1 a month.
But you obviously have these pre-conseved notions of how to feel about bankers in your mind, maybe because you feel wronged that you're not one of the 1% or something I dunno, and so like arguing with theists I suppose I have little chance of changing your mind. So continue putting money into your flammable mattress and blaming the entire world economic crisis, stay in your little bubble of ignorance.

that probably came across a little mean but I am seriously sick of this "it's the rich peoples fault", or something along those lines. It is ignorant and gets old real fast.

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18-05-2012, 07:01 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
No, no you did not sound mean, you sound like you work in a bank.

Smile

Tell me, how is it that the Bank of Islam can operate without any interests? They take 0% for the credit they give you. Why do our assholes then lift their interest rates at the time of greatest need to lower them? GREED.

That is all I am saying. and I do not like greedy people. Banks could be working and making money, but with slower tempo, with a bit less profit, but still with profit. Them we wouldn't hate them as much. A little compassion, a little understanding. I am not a fucking number, for Christ sake!

But this is what we fought for, right, democracy, freedom and free market, the opposite of communism, the capitalism? So we got what we wanted and now we are enjoying it.

Can we now stop with this now, I love Zeitgeist, you don't. Fine.

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18-05-2012, 09:53 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
(18-05-2012 07:01 AM)Filox Wrote:  No, no you did not sound mean, you sound like you work in a bank.

Smile

Tell me, how is it that the Bank of Islam can operate without any interests? They take 0% for the credit they give you. Why do our assholes then lift their interest rates at the time of greatest need to lower them? GREED.

That is all I am saying. and I do not like greedy people. Banks could be working and making money, but with slower tempo, with a bit less profit, but still with profit. Them we wouldn't hate them as much. A little compassion, a little understanding. I am not a fucking number, for Christ sake!

But this is what we fought for, right, democracy, freedom and free market, the opposite of communism, the capitalism? So we got what we wanted and now we are enjoying it.

Can we now stop with this now, I love Zeitgeist, you don't. Fine.

Smile
You are so wrong it baffles me. And I do believe you are getting your interest rates mixed up.

I do not know the current set rate of interest by the Central bank in the middle east. If you say it is 0% then so be it. But take this in for account, the current interest rate set by the central bank in America is 0.25%, hardly a difference from 0%.

See what you are getting mixed up is that Central banks role is to keep inflation a slow as possible. This is done by setting interest rates, a low 0.25% I might add. This hardly ever changes, it is pretty stable.

Switzerland is another country that has a 0% at this time. Just throwing that out there.

However this does not mean mortgage rates are 0.25%. The bank takes this 0.25%, they then take into account what they could be using that money for rather then buying your house for you, a major of that being government issued bonus bonds.
So say a bank can invest in government bonds with a 4% return. This would mean a 3.75% profit. So say you tell the bank that you are only going to pay 3% on your mortgage, well then the bank is obviously going to go with the bonus bonds as they return a greater profit.
This is what sets the interest rates. In this example interest rates would have to be at least greater then 4% (due to risk, even at 4% it is better to invest in 'safe' government bonds). So interest rates would be around 4.25% or something like that, the 0.25% because of greater risk.

So what ultimately determines interest rates is the supply and demand of alternative investments such as government bonus bonds. This is where and why fluctuations occur, hardly the banks fault.

All banks in the world follow this principle. Even in the middle east who actually have a mortgage rate around 5%, not the 0% you're claiming.

So like I said in my last post, how about you educate yourself before you go around making baseless assumptions about things you know nothing about.

Can I also just add that a bank is a business, in the same way that the corner dairy is a business. They have to make a profit. That doesn't make them crooks or evil it simply makes them smart businessmen and it is not their fault half the people on this planet do not understand how the system ACTUALLY works and instead make assumptions based on nothing.

So let is do a recap of what we have learned today shall we.
- Central Banks set low interest rates in order to control inflation
- Banks base their interest rates on the potential income of their money, so if they can make more by investing in bonus bonds then they raise the interest rates so it gives them incentive to lend to you rather then purchase bonds. Works both ways, if bonds yield low returns then interest rates drop.
- Interest rates are controlled by things uncontrolled by banks.
- Banks are not evil.

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21-05-2012, 01:18 AM
RE: 12-year Old Victoria Grant: Stop Criminal Bankers and Government
Sharia prohibits the fixed or floating payment or acceptance of specific interest or fees (known as riba or usury) for loans of money.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking

Anyway, I care not about all this, I did study economy, I work as an economist, I am very aware of how the banks work...

I really wanted you to stop posting long posts about how good the banks are. No, the whole monetary system is bad. Yes, the banks are good, or to be more precise, they are necessary if we have a monetary system like we do, but there are alternatives to it. Shall we live to see them? I think not. Do I want to see that happen? Yes, I do.

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