12 years for killing babies
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03-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Question 12 years for killing babies
A 26yo Dutch woman got a 12-year sentence for killing her newborn baby, 4 times in a row. (article).

She secretly gave birth to them, killed them and then hid them in the attic. All 4 of them... over a period of 6 years.


What do you guys&girls think of the sentence?
-should she have gotten a harsher sentence, considering it's 4x murder?
-or could this activity be considered as a very late abortion? Consider the fact that babies don't really think actively yet. Where do we draw the line? conception? a beating heart? birth? distinguishable human form?


Since we atheist aren't supposed to have any morals Tongue, I really wonder what other people think about it.


My personal opinion:
-I'm pro-abortion until birth. And should the child be severely handicapped (trisomy-21 counts), I think euthanasia after birth should even be allowed. But a healthy born baby? I know the world is crowded, but he/she should deserve a chance.
-About the 12 year sentence. I don't know what those years in jail can do to improve her behaviour. Maybe sterilizing her and psychiatric help would be better... Apart from the baby killing, she didn't do much wrong, and sterilization would take away the cause of her problems. But what she did, really upsets me. She killed vulnerabe creatures that didn't even stand a chance. Some kind of really harsh punishment seems appropriate somehow.

Moral dilemmas...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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03-05-2011, 07:44 PM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
This woman is a danger to society. Special mental institution for violent offenders for as long as psychiatrists think is necessary. She is clearly a threat to society.
Also I agree , not allowing her to give birth again may stop the pathology. Each killer has a trigger I suppose.
Last I sadly have to say I've heard of this one time to many. Killing newborns is typical in China for example where there's a 1 baby policy.
And when it comes to pets , if a cat/dog give birth to cubs and owners feel they can't take care of them they will drown them early in life so "they don't suffer" - the true horrid nature of that practice seems more evident when applied to our own species Sad Sad

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03-05-2011, 09:50 PM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
She said that is was largely due to shame and embarrassment. She never told anyone she was pregnant, and gave birth alone in her house. I don't know what the social climate was in her small village, but she said:

Quote:I did not want anyone to know I was pregnant. It was fear, shame and panic. It was not how things should be.

Which would be a common thing if her village wasn't too accepting. Not that I think she didn't do anything wrong, it's still not any excuse to kill babies, but I think that part of the blame would rest, if my speculations are correct, on the society that makes her feel like it's better to kill babies than to be caught with them outside of marriage. I'm not going to guess on the sentence, it could vary a lot based on the circumstances.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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04-05-2011, 04:22 AM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
(03-05-2011 09:50 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  [quote]
I did not want anyone to know I was pregnant. It was fear, shame and panic. It was not how things should be.
She was pregnant for 4 times in 6 years
4x9 = 36 = months that she was pregnant
6x12 = 72 = Months between all events
That means she walked around half that time actually being pregnant.

Questions/remarks that arise:
Was she "caught of guard" 4 times in a row?
Where's the father?
Holland is a civilised country with abortion laws and preconception.
Why did she kept the babys?

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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05-05-2011, 01:23 AM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
(04-05-2011 04:22 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Holland is a civilised country...

You're too gentle for a country that brought Heineken into the world and adores peanut butter sauce. Wink

But you're right; it's inconceivable that she was pregnant 4 times in a row and nobody noticed. Unless she was really fat, but she isn't on the pictures. Furthermore, I really really wonder what went on in her head...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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05-05-2011, 12:24 PM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
(05-05-2011 01:23 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  
(04-05-2011 04:22 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Holland is a civilised country...
You're too gentle for a country that brought Heineken into the world and adores peanut butter sauce. Wink
"broodje kroket", you forgot "broodje kroket"

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08-05-2011, 11:20 PM
RE: 12 years for killing babies
I heard a french woman did the same thing a while ago.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

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