1984
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21-01-2013, 08:35 PM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2013 09:28 PM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: 1984
(21-12-2012 05:24 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(20-12-2012 11:37 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  Is it ever hinted at who are the power brokers of Oceania? Is it an amalgam of the main capital owners of society (say, like the "1%" in the US)? Or is it a cabal of ideological zealots? Or is it that there are no elite members of society, and everything is just running on "automatic"?
Well, seeing as this was written by a European and at a time when the USSR was still going strong (in a certain sense of the word), it's not really about capital owners, as it is about the ruling party (and the cult of the personality). I don't think it matters who exactly (maybe you shouldn't click it if you haven't finished the book) is doing the oppression, as it is about an oppressive society, about the oppressed and not the oppressors. And, above all, about power. The origin of this power isn't that important, its effects are.

Well, that's kinda simplifying it a bit, but...
Everyone can imagine living in an oppressive society - oppressed by a malevolent dictatorial power. That's played out in books, films, and games all the time. What's hard to imagine is WHY did it come to that? Who are the people responsible? And how can it be stopped?

In the book (which I finally got to) is that these revolutionaries took power for power sake. Their motives are thoroughly thought out and understood and accepted by their group. They didn't want power for a means to an end, power was their end. Their goal was to exercise power until the end of time. An entire class of sadists.

And of course, live in luxury gated communities as they do it. Dodgy

Fun read, but not entirely fulfilling. Well, I guess off to compare it with Brave New World.
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01-04-2013, 11:24 PM
RE: 1984
(21-01-2013 08:35 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  In the book (which I finally got to) is that these revolutionaries took power for power sake. Their motives are thoroughly thought out and understood and accepted by their group. They didn't want power for a means to an end, power was their end. Their goal was to exercise power until the end of time. An entire class of sadists.

And of course, live in luxury gated communities as they do it. Dodgy

No. No. No. No. No.

Forget "Luxury". The only reason that inner party members lived in relative luxury was so that they were free to perform ever more work and more effectively oppress the population. I know this is hard to accept for someone raised in Contemporary Western Culture, but it is a valid concept nevertheless.

For example: For hundreds of years in ancient Greece, The Spartans may have lived in relative luxury as compared to their enslaved Helots, but the Spartans led a Dangerous and Grueling life compared to other Greeks - a life relatively devoid of any luxurues. In fact, there is a word we use for a home or community that is devoid of luxury: "Spartan". The only reason for a Spartan to have a labor-saving device (like a slave) was so that he would have the time to train for war and wage war - and keep the Helots from rebelling.

Such was the case with the inner party described in 1984.
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02-04-2013, 06:12 AM
RE: 1984
(01-04-2013 11:24 PM)Julius Wrote:  
(21-01-2013 08:35 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  In the book (which I finally got to) is that these revolutionaries took power for power sake. Their motives are thoroughly thought out and understood and accepted by their group. They didn't want power for a means to an end, power was their end. Their goal was to exercise power until the end of time. An entire class of sadists.

And of course, live in luxury gated communities as they do it. Dodgy

No. No. No. No. No.

Forget "Luxury". The only reason that inner party members lived in relative luxury was so that they were free to perform ever more work and more effectively oppress the population. I know this is hard to accept for someone raised in Contemporary Western Culture, but it is a valid concept nevertheless.

For example: For hundreds of years in ancient Greece, The Spartans may have lived in relative luxury as compared to their enslaved Helots, but the Spartans led a Dangerous and Grueling life compared to other Greeks - a life relatively devoid of any luxurues. In fact, there is a word we use for a home or community that is devoid of luxury: "Spartan". The only reason for a Spartan to have a labor-saving device (like a slave) was so that he would have the time to train for war and wage war - and keep the Helots from rebelling.

Such was the case with the inner party described in 1984.


You are making a joke, yes? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-04-2013, 07:14 AM
RE: 1984
Count me as a peer, because I also started reading this book thanks to the recommendation by a forum member.

But after laughing at the 'two manuals' picture so hard that I think I'd better continue reading the book tomorrow.

Want something? Then do something.
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02-04-2013, 10:26 AM
RE: 1984
(19-12-2012 11:44 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  I just love these two "manuals" for a dystopian world, and how if these two systems were combined, humanity would have no chance of recovery.

IF? Shocking

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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03-04-2013, 07:09 AM
RE: 1984
(02-04-2013 06:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-04-2013 11:24 PM)Julius Wrote:  No. No. No. No. No.

Forget "Luxury". The only reason that inner party members lived in relative luxury was so that they were free to perform ever more work and more effectively oppress the population. I know this is hard to accept for someone raised in Contemporary Western Culture, but it is a valid concept nevertheless.

For example: For hundreds of years in ancient Greece, The Spartans may have lived in relative luxury as compared to their enslaved Helots, but the Spartans led a Dangerous and Grueling life compared to other Greeks - a life relatively devoid of any luxurues. In fact, there is a word we use for a home or community that is devoid of luxury: "Spartan". The only reason for a Spartan to have a labor-saving device (like a slave) was so that he would have the time to train for war and wage war - and keep the Helots from rebelling.

Such was the case with the inner party described in 1984.


You are making a joke, yes? Consider


Chas,

What I am saying is that to some people "Power" over other people is a bigger motivator than luxury, or money, or fame...or anything.

[Image: Power%20Demotivator.jpg]
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03-04-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: 1984
(03-04-2013 07:09 AM)Julius Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 06:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are making a joke, yes? Consider


Chas,

What I am saying is that to some people "Power" over other people is a bigger motivator than luxury, or money, or fame...or anything.

[Image: Power%20Demotivator.jpg]


Yes, I agree - it is for some people. But I didn't get that from your post.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-04-2013, 08:59 PM
RE: 1984
So I got this out of the library, and am on the waiting list for Huxely's book.

This may very well be the first book I read since I read the Little Yellow Digger when I was 5.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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