2 questions to ask a theist.
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27-09-2012, 07:44 AM
2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 07:42 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 09:30 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Dammit. I hate when I agree with Chas. If free will was thoroughly debunked it would no longer be a discussion. You can't just dismiss a thought because you don't believe it. Besides, it's a non issue when you introduce the Sovereignty of God.
Try again, Buckmeister. I know you can do better than this!

Then why do we debate about God, religion, and the Bible?

Why do we?
I'm beginning to think it's best to just drop all the god shit and move on.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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27-09-2012, 07:47 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(26-09-2012 02:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The Parable of The Prodigal Son was a reworking of the popular, (at the time),
Hymn of the Pearl, in Gnostic literature.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/hymnpearl.htm

Jesus likely did not tell it as such. The authors of the Gospel of Thomas had it first, and the others picked it up.

Okay, where to begin with your errors...

Let's start with the Gospel of Thomas - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/

No "prodigal son" parable. However, perhaps you meant to imply that there was the parable of the Merchant and the Pearl. I suggest then you click on the commentary then - NOTHING to do with Prodigal Son: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/th...mas76.html

Okay, what about your link - which is from the ACTS of Thomas, NOT Gospel of Thomas which contains the Hymn of the Pearl of which YOU say is the basis for the Prodigal Son?

Acts of Thomas is dated: 200-250 AD
http://wesley.nnu.edu/sermons-essays-boo...of-thomas/
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

The Gospel of Luke? 59-(at WORST)130. 130 still 70 YEARS before the earliest AOT.
http://www.harvardhouse.com/Luke_date-written.htm
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

If what you have present was even remotely true, it clearly is a miracle that Luke PRE-USED a story that hadn't been written yet as a basis for a parable in his account.

Yes, Gospel of Thomas is dated earlier - however, as I just showed it was NOT the basis for the Prodigal Son parable either.

So, please again, show us how the Hymn of the Pearl is the basis for the Prodigal Son?
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27-09-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Caff -

I had to address that bad post first, but I am still going to reply to yours, as soon as I get a larger chunk of time to do so.

V - I made my point, and am no longer interested in the discussion. Call it a win for yourself so we can move on if you wish, but I made my point, I feel no need to beat the horse any more.
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27-09-2012, 07:58 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 07:44 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 07:42 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then why do we debate about God, religion, and the Bible?

Why do we?
I'm beginning to think it's best to just drop all the god shit and move on.

Yeah, huh? It's like Doctor Who fans took over the show, which would be an improvement, but debate about the one true Doctor and threats about Daleks would get old after a few centuries...

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27-09-2012, 08:00 AM
2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 07:44 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why do we?
I'm beginning to think it's best to just drop all the god shit and move on.

Yeah, huh? It's like Doctor Who fans took over the show, which would be an improvement, but debate about the one true Doctor and threats about Daleks would get old after a few centuries...

Now you're just talking nonsense. Go lay down and stare at some Gwynnies. Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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27-09-2012, 08:02 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 08:00 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 07:58 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Yeah, huh? It's like Doctor Who fans took over the show, which would be an improvement, but debate about the one true Doctor and threats about Daleks would get old after a few centuries...

Now you're just talking nonsense. Go lay down and stare at some Gwynnies. Tongue

I'm not coming here no morez! You're so mean to me! Sadcryface2

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27-09-2012, 08:06 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
A wild Theist appears.

I for C
I apologize in advance if you have already addressed the questions and points I will be raising, but I suspect that the manner in which I ask them will differ if they have already been poised to you on this thread.

I'll start off with a few questions to get a baseline for who you are.
1) Why "Idiot for Christ?" What is the purpose of calling yourself such?
2) What are the religious views of those closest to you? (I.E. what are the religious views of your parents and closest friends)
3) How does the answer to the above question influence your personal religious views?
4) What had a bigger impact on the spread of Christianity: its stories and Jesus or the acceptance by the Roman hierarchy as the official state religion?

Although I identify myself as an atheist, I should note that I mean that I lack a belief in a god or gods based on a paucity of evidence to demonstrate the existence or the need for the existence of a god or gods. As such, I am always willing to look at the evidence to see where it leads me.
5) What evidence is there to support the existence of a god?
6) How does this evidence prove the Christian version of god and not a different version or multiple gods?


If no evidence exists and faith must be the means by which to believe, then;
7) Why do believers attempt to justify their beliefs using "evidence?"
8) Why does the Christian god want himself to be known through the bible, but not through evidence that can ever be confirmed?
9) If faith is sufficient, then why do we need the bible?


I realize I have thrown numerous questions at you all at once, so allow me to explain my position. I am a former christian who was raised in the bible belt of the southern US to an extended family of self-identifying christians (mainly southern baptists). I began to shed my beliefs upon reflection of the morals that were displayed in the bible. Particularly by my senior year of high school when a youth minister told us a very disturbing story of his grandmothers suicide and how he was mad at her because he would never see her again. After that, my belief in the bible faded to that of a story-book with some of the stories within perhaps containing relevant points for today's society, but no more so than a Disney film. After my continued education in geology and paleontology, I began to see the shrinking spaces that god occupied in my brain as increasingly unnecessary, and eventually asked myself one question. Was there any evidence at all to justify my beliefs in any supernatural deity/force/energy/god? Simply put the answer was no, and although I am confident of that answer, I allow my doubt to drive me in my search for truth (or something close to it). My doubt keeps me on my toes and enables me to reject any claims that are too good to be true. I am a doubter, I am a nonbeliever, but I am not dogmatic about it and I am open to evidence. My last question.
10) Are you?

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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27-09-2012, 08:12 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
TBD - great questions and I will gladly answer them. However, it might not be for some time (maybe later tonight) as I still owe Caff a reply.

Thanks for the questions!
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27-09-2012, 08:15 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 07:44 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 07:42 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then why do we debate about God, religion, and the Bible?

Why do we?
I'm beginning to think it's best to just drop all the god shit and move on.

And yet we all continue to do so. Consider

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27-09-2012, 08:16 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2012 10:45 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(27-09-2012 07:47 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:56 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The Parable of The Prodigal Son was a reworking of the popular, (at the time),
Hymn of the Pearl, in Gnostic literature.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/hymnpearl.htm

Jesus likely did not tell it as such. The authors of the Gospel of Thomas had it first, and the others picked it up.

Okay, where to begin with your errors...

Let's start with the Gospel of Thomas - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/

No "prodigal son" parable. However, perhaps you meant to imply that there was the parable of the Merchant and the Pearl. I suggest then you click on the commentary then - NOTHING to do with Prodigal Son: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/th...mas76.html

Okay, what about your link - which is from the ACTS of Thomas, NOT Gospel of Thomas which contains the Hymn of the Pearl of which YOU say is the basis for the Prodigal Son?

Acts of Thomas is dated: 200-250 AD
http://wesley.nnu.edu/sermons-essays-boo...of-thomas/
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

The Gospel of Luke? 59-(at WORST)130. 130 still 70 YEARS before the earliest AOT.
http://www.harvardhouse.com/Luke_date-written.htm
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

If what you have present was even remotely true, it clearly is a miracle that Luke PRE-USED a story that hadn't been written yet as a basis for a parable in his account.

Yes, Gospel of Thomas is dated earlier - however, as I just showed it was NOT the basis for the Prodigal Son parable either.

So, please again, show us how the Hymn of the Pearl is the basis for the Prodigal Son?

I'll deal with this, but you conveniently forgot to reply to my other posts to you. And BTW the fact that the parable is in both, does not mean it CAME from one, to the other. It just means it was circulating.

Also ALL inspiration claims are obviously spurious, and Irenaeus cut down the number of circulating gospels (about 180 ++ ) to 4. Why ? He said there were 4 winds, and THAT was HIS reason. There was no "community validation" by the believers, in his actions. That PROVES, that whatever was or was not "inspired" as content and validated by communities, (which begs the question ... why were SO many communities using SO many gospels ?), became irrelevant, as Irenaeus, HIMSELF, who authored nothing, was the sole agent in the determination of the final 4, and CONTENT was not the determining criteria.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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