2 questions to ask a theist.
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29-09-2012, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 09:31 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-09-2012, 09:53 AM
Photo RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
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29-09-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
And still no promised Pearl Refutation....

well, I dont' really expect one anymore...
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29-09-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 09:55 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  And still no promised Pearl Refutation....

well, I dont' really expect one anymore...
Still no reply to my question either. Stop complaining.

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29-09-2012, 10:56 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
All anyone does around here; complain. You guys sound like a bunch of children. Tongue

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29-09-2012, 11:00 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 10:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All anyone does around here; complain. You guys sound like a bunch of children. Tongue

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29-09-2012, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 02:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
So how do we know god is not love ?

1. Jesus was a Jew. When Jesus said "the Father", he meant Yahweh. Period. Jesus never claimed divinity for himself, and we know that, as they argued the matter for centuries. Yahweh, was never, ever, thought of as the human emotion, "love".

2. When Jesus said, concerning the end times, "only the Father knows", it clearly indicates that he neither thought of himself as part of a "god-head", or actually knew what the Father knew. The Trinity had not developed yet.

3. In Greek Philosophy, there is a distinction between "eros" and "agape".
Agape was appropriated by early Christian theology to signify what they thought of as the "love" BETWEEN Jesus and the Church, or the god and his people. NEVER EVER did they say it WAS the god. It was always, and only the relationship, between the two

4. So how did it come about that "love" turned into the god, in some people's heads ? In the early Medieval period there arose in the West, a movement called the "Romantic Ideal", which included Chretien de Troyes, who wrote one of the early versions of the Grail myth, and the Arthurian legends. As that developed, and changed, in European history it also had other iterations, such as the Romantic Movement etc, (William Wordsworth), and the West came to idealize "love", as it is thought of today, which is also heavily influenced by the post-modern fact of 20th Century Hollywood "romanticism".

5. If "love" were not the human idea, on which we place the highest value, currently, (generally), in human cultures, (which we know has not always been the case), no one would ever say "god is love". All that string of words actually means in 21st Century parlance is : "The thing I value the highest is love", (ie the good relations with the people I value the most, my friends, and my family, (and actually in 21st C. culture my pets). It does not really any longer refer, in humans minds, to an external deity.

Edit : BTW, this will be expanded, when I have time, re the cultural origins and history of the Western idea of "love", and when and how it became a value at all, and emerged as #1, and that is expressed in culture.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-09-2012, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 05:18 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
"Liar in one, liar in all".
Since you just made up the business about "god is love, and sin her opposite", we can believe nothing you say.

(29-09-2012 09:53 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  They were always around, they were known at that time - also, the MORE copies that we find of a certain text the more we know HOW it was used, where it was used, etc.

Bullshit. There were few copies around, and many unknown until they were found at Nag Hammadi. Your're just talking to hear yourself talk. You clearly are making shit up as you go along, and have no education in the matter.

(29-09-2012 09:53 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  "As I stated the FOUR were well known at the time he made his statement. Why were they well known? Because they fit, there were OLDER copies of them that others"

The dates of the copies he actually had in his possession never had anything to do with the decision. He SAID the decision was based on the 4 winds, and the 4 columns. NOTHING to do with the texts. You really are desperate, I see.
You're attempting to confuse the matter with modern values and the ones Irenaeus used, AND impose your point of view on him. The actual age of the texts had NOTHING to do with arguments for authenticity. Have you ever read the procedings of the Councils ?

(28-09-2012 03:52 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Again, WHAT SUPPRESSION? The texts are still out there! All of them, do a google search, go to the library. Read them.

Oh Lord. Can someone please explain to this fool why finding something in a 21st Century library says nothing about suppression in the ancient world ?

(28-09-2012 03:52 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  If he didn't care about fitness - then why did he pick those FOUR EXACTLY? They fit pretty well considering what else was being passed around.

"Fit what" ??? What did it "fit". You have no idea what it "fit", and neither did he. You have PREJUDGED, BY BELIEF, what you want "fit". Think about it. "Fit" means you're admitting you and they were biased !!!
HE TOLD YOU ! 4 winds, and 4 pillars. have you been asleep for the past week ?

I see what sort of intellect we're dealing with here.

(28-09-2012 03:52 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  He gave his reason there should ONLY be four. However, as I pointed out, and as YOU KNOW, there were more texts out there. So again, why not pick four of the others?

Because they WERE prominent and his CHOICE in those four supports this.

Prove prominence. You are guessing. You really have no idea. The 4 we have are SO different it proves there was no standard for the choice. The number was capricious, and the choice was capricious.

(28-09-2012 03:52 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  The NT is the MOST RELIABLE text in antiquity - this is a truth that is known. If you don't know this...I wonder...

LMAO. LOLOLOLOLOLOL. You cannot possibly be serious. Do I really have to start down THAT road ? That's what your fundie teachers have drummed into your head. That is neither known nor accepted. That's just what you want to believe. There is no evidence for that. Where did you go to school ?

(28-09-2012 03:52 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  He WAS GREEK! That's not external - that's doing the same as me using Christian writings.

NO. External is not " external to greek". External is "external" to HIM.
External for Jesus/Christianity, would be "external" to Christianity, not external to geographic location. Nice try though.

Non-Christian Mithra link : http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_Mithra
BTW, the important thing about Mitraism, is not any particular single similarity, but the similarity to the "personal purification by sacrifice", (NOT "atonement by sacrifice"), theme, (which of course NONE of the gospels say anything about). It came from Zoroastrianism, to Christianity via Mithra, to Paul, to Christianity. http://www.avesta.org/ka/niyayesh.htm

Nazorites : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite , (ie there was a Bronze age grave yard at one of the ends of the valley, which Nazareth is in, NEVER a town). Zazirites were a form of Jewish ascetics.

BTW mark Fulton put me on to this : (Caesar's messiah), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGdRDLRZaoo , hmmmm Consider

BTW, your dating of The Gospel of Thomas is wrong. It's in 3 fragments, and the first one was dated at 130 CE.




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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-09-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
He is asleep the whole of his life, and he did'nt want to be awake, because he's dreaming the dream of standing on the right site.
He is, and i really read the most of the whole thread, a black and white/good and evil-kinda guy.
There is no shade of grey in all of them.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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29-09-2012, 01:19 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Of course, 4 has numerological significance in this context. And I'm thinking he means "most prolific and congruent" when he says "most reliable." According to my figuring, of course the copies of the texts are congruent - it was quite literally a play - the NT a script for evangelical Judaism.

But try to ease off of Idiot. We could use another decent theist around here. Thumbsup

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