2 questions to ask a theist.
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29-09-2012, 08:05 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 07:38 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Oh stop it, you clown. It's been almost two months and you have yet to comment on any on the threads in which you made extraordinary claims without providing any evidence. The resurrection of Jesus thread, the compelling evidence for Christianity thread and last but not least the thread in which you claimed that god is good despite the atrocities commited and ordered by him in the OT. In our previous debates, you have shown that your logical thinking skills are flawed and that you tend to get butthurt when called out on it very quickly. You act like you think you're a fucking genius, thinking that you're that one person who possesses compelling evidence for Christianity and the resurrection of Christ and yet it's been two months and you haven't presented any evidence at all. That and you continue to claim that your evidence leads you to the conclusion that god's existence is more probable than his non-existence, without naming anything to support it.

Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously?

It used to bother me that you didn't take me seriously.
I learned that you're the same jerk to just about every Theist on this forum. It's a relief to find out that I'm not the irrational one after having a few idiotic conversations with you Vosur.
I notice how you'll be all Philosophical and deep with other Atheists and like-minded people, but then you find out someone just believes in God and your sippin on your coffee giving your smart-ass comments until the other person feels like a fool.
No more of that good sir.
Of all people on this board, I wouldn't mind if you just stopped existing. I might just breathe one last breath of lasting relief and make myself some of your genius coffee to celebrate. Drinking Beverage

When I say I believe Gods existence is more probable than not, that is not an indication that I'm about to break down the latest and greatest of the best of the baddest evidences to support this claim. No.
What I am doing with that statement is simply telling you that I don't just believe in God "on Faith" and nothing else. I'm telling you that I don't just accept what people tell me, I investigate it with the best of the resources I have available.
The arguments that I provide here and there are what boost the understanding of the said statement. It's not a one-liner that I start a presentation with to get the crowd ready for my big speech.

Of course, I'm wasting my breath here - just so you can come at me again with something ridiculous. Why the hell do I do that? Huh

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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29-09-2012, 08:13 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Am I really going to be the first to say "Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe"?

Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe.Thumbsup

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29-09-2012, 08:19 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 08:05 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  It used to bother me that you didn't take me seriously.
I learned that you're the same jerk to just about every Theist on this forum. It's a relief to find out that I'm not the irrational one after having a few idiotic conversations with you Vosur.
A delusional theist claims to be a rational person - you crack me up. They were idiotic indeed, considering that you lack a basic understanding of logical thinking which caused you to commit several logical fallacies throughout your arguments (i.e. omnipotence debate) without even realizing it.

(29-09-2012 08:05 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I notice how you'll be all Philosophical and deep with other Atheists and like-minded people, but then you find out someone just believes in God and your sippin on your coffee giving your smart-ass comments until the other person feels like a fool.
And what evidence do you have to support this claim? Drinking Beverage

(29-09-2012 08:05 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  When I say I believe Gods existence is more probable than not, that is not an indication that I'm about to break down the latest and greatest of the best of the baddest evidences to support this claim. No.
What I am doing with that statement is simply telling you that I don't just believe in God "on Faith" and nothing else. I'm telling you that I don't just accept what people tell me, I investigate it with the best of the resources I have available.
The arguments that I provide here and there are what boost the understanding of the said statement. It's not a one-liner that I start a presentation with to get the crowd ready for my big speech.

Of course, I'm wasting my breath here - just so you can come at me again with something ridiculous. Why the hell do I do that? Huh
As I've stated previously, it's been two months and you've been unable to present any argument supporting your belief. Unless you are able to do that, it's only rational to assume that your belief is based on nothing but faith.

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29-09-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 08:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Am I really going to be the first to say "Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe"?

Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe.Thumbsup

A2, I swear I didn't mean to derail this Thread. I just came back to see how things were going and the first thing I saw was that stupid Santa Claus skit lol

Thanks for welcoming me back XD
I said I wouldn't post my blog for fear of being ridiculed by some people on here, but who cares anymore right? lol

ideasonscribe.blog.com is my blog site if you feel like checking things out. So far, I haven't been too detailed with anything because I've been mainly posting at work. But yeah..

Anyways, I probably shouldn't continue with Vosur. He just likes it too dang much Rolleyes

If you guys want to continue the Thread in what you were talking about, go ahead and get that started back up.

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29-09-2012, 08:54 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 08:30 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(29-09-2012 08:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Am I really going to be the first to say "Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe"?

Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe.Thumbsup

A2, I swear I didn't mean to derail this Thread. I just came back to see how things were going and the first thing I saw was that stupid Santa Claus skit lol

Thanks for welcoming me back XD
I said I wouldn't post my blog for fear of being ridiculed by some people on here, but who cares anymore right? lol

ideasonscribe.blog.com is my blog site if you feel like checking things out. So far, I haven't been too detailed with anything because I've been mainly posting at work. But yeah..

Anyways, I probably shouldn't continue with Vosur. He just likes it too dang much Rolleyes

If you guys want to continue the Thread in what you were talking about, go ahead and get that started back up.

It's just my humble observation that it isn't the argument of God's existence or you presenting evidence of your beliefs that is the problem, but it is the WAY the argument, or the question of you presenting evidence is said, or phrased. Am I right? It's not the debate that is wrong, it's just the way the debate is being played out?

If that is the case, then just state clearly, and without any hard feelings what is wrong with Vosur's way of responding, and Vosur, Vice Versa.

I am interested in the debate, but I know that the way the people argue is just as effective as a tool for persuasion( or no persuasion) as the evidence itself.

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29-09-2012, 09:22 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 10:22 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 08:30 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  If you guys want to continue the Thread in what you were talking about, go ahead and get that started back up.

Oh, gee, can we? I'm glad we have your permission and shit. Dodgy

Now that the necessary snark has been dispensed with... I scoped your blog. Looks pretty sharp. Thumbsup

But I noticed Kalam in there. I hate that guy, yet seeing him again introduced another flaw in said concept. If we're talking law of cause and effect here, we are more appropriately derivative of the first effect, and said effect is more likely to be resultant not of the first cause, but of the last cause. That's what Penrose is going on about with his cyclic universe hypothesis. The last cause is having essentially infinite distance between photons and a breakdown of locality, setting the stage for a quantum singularity. And perhaps all this fine-tuning nonsense is artifact differing from the entropic count of this universe.

People don't like nothing, I'm thinking, out of some lurking fear of death; but that's absurd. Without nothingness, there is no space for anything to occur. Tomorrow is nothing; but then I think about it, and the first thought that comes to mind is more Gwynnies! (Moar Gwynnies cause I'm broke in the head like that) Draw her maybe, but definitely look at her; yet the way to Gwyneth from here is too full of something, like Chris, and kids, and cops, felonies, lawyers, judges, bailiffs, oh my! Ohmy

Which is to say, I need more nothing in my Gwynnies. Not only does the potential for anything come from nothing, but it seems the actualization for anything has come from nothing. Just like Tao. Just like breakfast.

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29-09-2012, 10:08 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2012 07:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
So some of what hoc said, (I'm still figuring it out Weeping ), is that for First Cause, causation is ALREADY presumed to be a structure in Reality. You have to answer "what caused Causality ?" and there is presently no possible answer to that. It's Infinite Regression. The question is not, "what caused the universe", but "what caused Causality" first, ie "what caused the structure of Reality". So you have to back up "further", and ask a different question. God can't cause anything, (including Causality), *unless* Causality is already in place as a structure in Reality. There are many other corollaries from this, as well, but First Cause is one of the first to go. First Cause also presumes absolute linear time, (cause must precede effect), in an "intentionally creative act". * We now know, there are examples where the past can be affected by a future effect, (in a local level..see below link), and we know from Relativity, there is no absolute time. In this universe time is part of the continuum space-time. We don't know what may or may not exist, if anything, other than this universe.

* Note. They can exempt god from this, as they often do, but then there is no point to the discussion, and it's begun in bad faith. If they start by saying "OK, I'm going to use Logic to prove god", and then in the last step, say "except god is not subject to our laws of Logic, (and time)". It's inconsistent both logically, and linguistically. The definitions of the words in the language either actually mean something( and the SAME thing), to both parties, or they don't. One doesn't get to change the definitions, mid-stream.

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30-09-2012, 01:39 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2012 01:44 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I'm sorry that you're disappointed in my approach on this forum.

Good, because quite frankly, your approach sucks.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  The last "debate" I remember with you was something about the Omnipotence Paradox and the ridiculous circular arguing and word play that we were using.

I recall participating in several debates, such as the Resurrection thread, the Omnipotence thread, the Benevolence thread, the Compelling Evidence for Christianity thread. All times, you leave, claiming to "search for more evidence", but you never return.

As for the semantics, that was non-existent in my argument. You were attempting to redefine the word "omnipotent", and I told you not to do so.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I do like getting into philosophical discussions that are roughly about something that is almost irrelevant to the fundamentals of my belief. That, however, is not avoidance.

You also like to avoid important questions and run away from a strong opposition.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I guess I do that sometimes because I get bored of trying to defend something like scriptural problems and contradictions, or the Cosmological Argument that's been over-argued to an extensive point.

Irrelevant. If you start a debate, you finish it.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I do get bored of these things, do you want me to say I'm sorry that I get bored of these?

No, I want you to continue the debate until it runs its course.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  As far as my understanding, you see a lot more flaw in my belief than I do. Otherwise, I wouldn't continue to be in my belief. I am not someone who continues to believe something that has been shown to have completely unavoidable flaws. The understanding I have regarding the evidence available has largely led me to believe that God's existence is more probable. So when you say I'm creating a smokescreen of useless debates because I can't answer questions without admitting some flaws of my belief, you're not talking about me. When I see a flaw (Not when you see a flaw that you think I should see as a flaw), then I admit that flaw and go back to the drawing board to rethink my belief.
As unbiased as I try to be, you guys still come at me with this. As if I'm the same old belligerent Fundamentalist Christian that comes in to try and teach the Atheist a thing-or-two.

Yes, I see many a flaw in your ridiculous conviction. Yet, whenever an opposing argument is presented to you, you seem to crumble. You run away, lying about getting "more evidence" for you argument. Several times, such as the Omnipotence thread, I have shown to you that it is impossible for your deity to be Omnipotent. You used Thomas Aquinas' flawed logic, and I showed you the fallacy in said logic. You ran away.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  That's bull crap. I have serious doubts about so many things in my belief and am still in limbo with those problems until I find a more logical answer to them. I don't settle with answers given to me by people who got their answer from some other guy who got their answer from a loony pastor who got his answer from an almost forgotten book.

If you truly had serious doubts about your theological stance, you would not be a theist.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  I want the truth about life, I will NOT settle for less. If I cannot have the absolute truth, then the only thing I can have will be the closest thing to the truth.
If the truth about life is that Christianity is a fabricated belief brought on by fools who had mental problems, then if I search long enough, I'll find the damn answer eventually.

Too bad you can't obtain the truth as a theist.

(29-09-2012 06:06 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  So Logica, if I find a legitimate sound flaw in my belief, I WILL admit it.
But just because you think something is a flaw, doesn't mean you're right. The same goes for me. But at least I'm still searching for the answer.

You must be trying to redefine the word "legitimate", my friend. Drinking Beverage

(29-09-2012 08:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Am I really going to be the first to say "Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe"?

Welcome Back, Ideasonscribe.Thumbsup

Yay. Smokin

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30-09-2012, 02:46 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Jeez. Poor old Ideas, getting gently beaten to death every time he posts Tongue Actually I've clashed with you before, but equally, I seem to remember you as one of the more bearable theists. Welcome back Smile
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30-09-2012, 05:00 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
I've never seen a thread get hijacked twice.


Damn.


Still unable to reply to IfC, I'm getting started tomorrow. Hopefully. >_>
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