2 questions to ask a theist.
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25-09-2012, 09:36 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Okay! so Vosur wishes to play...let's see how this goes!

Vosur says this: "What evidence do you have to disprove the existence of Santa? "

Okay, so my challenge as you remember Vosur is that I CAN provide evidence against Santa (evidentally you don't think I can) and that you (since you have answered the challenge) will do the same for God.

So then, let's get this one out of the way: the scientific argument AGAINST Santa: http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread....sn-t-Exist

Of course ones similar to it are fould throughout the interweb.

Okay, now to what you wish to claim "absence of evidence = evidence of absence".
In the case of Santa, this is strong - God? well, that's for you to put forth.

1. No evidence of elves existing anywhere, including N. Pole.
2. No evidence of a toy manufactoring plant in the N. Pole owned by Santa, worked at by elves. And this would have to be a biiiiiig place to make all those toys.
3. No evidence of flying reindeer (as listed in link).
4. No guy evey actually claiming to be Santa has ever proven he was Santa.

So let's move on to the good evidence against Santa.

1. All parents admit that it is THEY who provide the child with toys on Christmas Eve - not Santa.
2. Toys Santa supposedly makes at his shop, can be purchased at various store around the world and are actually made by OTHER companies (ample proof of this).
3. All Santas found at malls around Christmas times are actually persons playing Santa.
4. Same with the elves.
5. the Santa that we all know and love (especially children) who is at the mall and on Coke products during the holiday season was created by Haddon Sundblom (though there were other depictions of Santa, this one caught on).
6. Santa's origins can be traced back - try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus for more info.

This should be enough to get us started. I am interested in your equally compelling evidence against God (beyond the usual "no evidence" argument). As I pointed out, that is ONLY a good use for evidence against, if it's used to point out what evidence we SHOULD see.

I await!
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25-09-2012, 09:38 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2012 10:34 AM by kim.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Why must an all powerful faith apply restrictions to infinity and freedom?

Why must an all powerful faith require people to be convinced of it?

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25-09-2012, 09:40 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 09:36 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Okay! so Vosur wishes to play...let's see how this goes!

Vosur says this: "What evidence do you have to disprove the existence of Santa? "

Okay, so my challenge as you remember Vosur is that I CAN provide evidence against Santa (evidentally you don't think I can) and that you (since you have answered the challenge) will do the same for God.

So then, let's get this one out of the way: the scientific argument AGAINST Santa: http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread....sn-t-Exist

Of course ones similar to it are fould throughout the interweb.

Okay, now to what you wish to claim "absence of evidence = evidence of absence".
In the case of Santa, this is strong - God? well, that's for you to put forth.

1. No evidence of elves existing anywhere, including N. Pole.
2. No evidence of a toy manufactoring plant in the N. Pole owned by Santa, worked at by elves. And this would have to be a biiiiiig place to make all those toys.
3. No evidence of flying reindeer (as listed in link).
4. No guy evey actually claiming to be Santa has ever proven he was Santa.

So let's move on to the good evidence against Santa.

1. All parents admit that it is THEY who provide the child with toys on Christmas Eve - not Santa.
2. Toys Santa supposedly makes at his shop, can be purchased at various store around the world and are actually made by OTHER companies (ample proof of this).
3. All Santas found at malls around Christmas times are actually persons playing Santa.
4. Same with the elves.
5. the Santa that we all know and love (especially children) who is at the mall and on Coke products during the holiday season was created by Haddon Sundblom (though there were other depictions of Santa, this one caught on).
6. Santa's origins can be traced back - try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus for more info.

This should be enough to get us started. I am interested in your equally compelling evidence against God (beyond the usual "no evidence" argument). As I pointed out, that is ONLY a good use for evidence against, if it's used to point out what evidence we SHOULD see.

I await!

The arguments against the existence of god are essentially the same.
Replace 'reindeer' with 'angels';
Replace 'North Pole' with 'anywhere';
etc.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-09-2012, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2012 09:45 AM by Idiot for Christ.)
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
"1. No, he should not force me, he should convince me.
If he is only capable to offer heaven or hell, i take door number three and leave the poor guy alone.
2. Who created the sin? "

1. why should he convince you (though the Bible promises he will - see below)? Shouldn't you have some responsibility in the matter? It's a relationship he wants, not just your belief - even the Bible teaches that not all who believe with be with God in the end. So you have NO responsibility in this then? It's ONLY up to him? As for God convincing you - Bible teaches draw near to him, he'll draw near to you. Of course, yes, some action is required by you, but that's the case in EVERY relationship isn't it?

As for door number 3, can't blame him though for your choice.

2. No one "created" sin. Sin is the opposite of Love. For every attribute of God, there is an opposite. Sin is doing, thinking, etc. the opposite of the nature of God - which is love. If there was no opposite, no being able to go against God's will, then free will doesn't truly exist. Sin is allowed to be availble to us as a choice.
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25-09-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Sin is not the opposite of love, you fucking fuck. Love is a singularity like truth. Evil_monster

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25-09-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 09:40 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  "1. No, he should not force me, he should convince me.
If he is only capable to offer heaven or hell, i take door number three and leave the poor guy alone.
2. Who created the sin? "

1. there you go, can't blame him though for your choice.
2. No one "created" sin. Sin is the opposite of Love. For every attribute of God, there is an opposite. Sin is doing, thinking, etc. the opposite of the nature of God - which is love. If there was no opposite, no being able to go against God's will, then free will doesn't truly exist. Sin is allowed to be availble to us as a choice.

2. Who created Love?

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25-09-2012, 09:50 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Chas

"The arguments against the existence of god are essentially the same.
Replace 'reindeer' with 'angels';
Replace 'North Pole' with 'anywhere';

LOL.

But here are your faults in your argument.

1) reindeer ARE animals subject to physics. Angels are spiritual/heavenly/NON earthy beings. While they may (as in the Bible) come to Earth, we don't expect to see them on a daily or even yearly basis do we? No.

2) everywhere. this too would only hold if you could put up reasons as to in what way we should see God that we currently are not, that God (who is outside the Earth, as are angels) should be seen as we "see" Santa.

So, no, your argument doesn't hold. Unless you wish to explain further than just "replacing" words.
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25-09-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
"2. Who created Love?"

Love is not created either. It's the nature of God. God IS love. God did not create love. To be created is to be (somewhat) outside of the creator. Such is not the case with love. God IS love in all it's forms and love ONLY exists as a nature of God. No God - no love.
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25-09-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 09:52 AM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  "2. Who created Love?"

Love is not created either. It's the nature of God. God IS love. God did not create love. To be created is to be (somewhat) outside of the creator. Such is not the case with love. God IS love in all it's forms and love ONLY exists as a nature of God. No God - no love.

2. Who created the nature of god?

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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25-09-2012, 09:55 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
This fucking guy... who didn't lock the gate? How many times we gotta tell ya, keep the gate locked, lest the trolls come in and shit on the furniture.

Angels? Because the Bible tells me so? Dodgy

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