2 questions to ask a theist.
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10-10-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Okay, here you are!


.doc  REPLY.doc (Size: 96 KB / Downloads: 66)
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10-10-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Quite lengthy. I don't think I am going to reply. You are unable to even comprehend when you are shifting the burden of proof. You don't understand the nonsensical statement that one could provide evidence for something not existing. You continuously attempt to side step my comments by saying that either A) the language you used gives your argument an out so it isn't fallacious since you are only saying "maybe" or "probably" B) or that I can't reply because I don't know what you meant by it C) and that statements can't be fallacious in and of themselves. Nonsense. How about this statement based on observation, "The Earth is flat." That is fallacious and is also an argument from ignorance. It looks flat so it must be flat. You can make fallacious statements. You can't avoid that in your posts simply by saying your use of certain words allows you to or that by not drawing an obvious conclusion I can't say it is false or a fallacy. Bollocks.

I'll continue to read your comments and replies, but this is obviously not going anywhere and you seem to have already become certain you are an expert on logical fallacies.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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10-10-2012, 11:43 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
I should also note that you seem to think that Islam was around before Christianity based on your reply. Try that again.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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10-10-2012, 11:58 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
In every single argument I've seen in this threads, IFC's immediate, and only, reaction is to show why he is right and everyone else is wrong. This is usually followed by a snarky "...but thanks for trying" or "...thanks for proving my point." This is not a quest for knowledge. This is someone who feels they have figured out all the answers. This is ego-driven behavior. Worse, he continues to commit blatant logical fallacies, yet points out those same fallacies when someone uses them to prove Santa Clause, or allah, or anything else besides IFC's god. It's too bad, because he puts a great amount of effort and detail into his debates, which I really appreciate. Unfortunately, they're so intellectually dishonest, I end up face-palming instead of learning.

It is the existence of all other religions, gods, and flawed belief systems, that show the inherent flaw in human nature that makes us cling desperately to what we believe is true. IFC couldn't gain ground against a "Muslim scholar" any more than we can against him. And that shows the greatest flaw in religious thinking: it's inflexible. You don't change the result, you simply manipulate to preserve the result. IFC's got a white-knuckle grip on his religion, and he's not capable of letting go.

Open his word doc and read for yourself... oh, and thanks for proving my point.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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10-10-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Well I will take a look. Where exactly do I imply that?
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10-10-2012, 12:08 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(10-10-2012 11:58 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  In every single argument I've seen in this threads, IFC's immediate, and only, reaction is to show why he is right and everyone else is wrong. This is usually followed by a snarky "...but thanks for trying" or "...thanks for proving my point." This is not a quest for knowledge. This is someone who feels they have figured out all the answers. This is ego-driven behavior. Worse, he continues to commit blatant logical fallacies, yet points out those same fallacies when someone uses them to prove Santa Clause, or allah, or anything else besides IFC's god. It's too bad, because he puts a great amount of effort and detail into his debates, which I really appreciate. Unfortunately, they're so intellectually dishonest, I end up face-palming instead of learning.

It is the existence of all other religions, gods, and flawed belief systems, that show the inherent flaw in human nature that makes us cling desperately to what we believe is true. IFC couldn't gain ground against a "Muslim scholar" any more than we can against him. And that shows the greatest flaw in religious thinking: it's inflexible. You don't change the result, you simply manipulate to preserve the result. IFC's got a white-knuckle grip on his religion, and he's not capable of letting go.

Open his word doc and read for yourself... oh, and thanks for proving my point.

He is on a faith-based religion and therefore he wont be able to prove anything to you, unless you decide to just believe what he believes.

Religions and facts/logic are like enemies. I have yet to meet anyone who prove me "God" is real and/or "the Holy Bible" is the word of god (or any holy book, depending on religion) using facts and logic, I dont know how or why IFC is really hoping to do so.

if your faith can move mountains it should be able to withstand criticism
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10-10-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
BD - well just pick one area and show me where I'm wrong.

FYI - I also pointed out where you misquoted me, created straw men, and ignored questions.
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10-10-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
I have read through your comment and reply. Let us come back to square 1 rather than a continously escalating series of replies. I will ask one question of you. Can you prove god exists? Furthermore, demonstrate it is the monotheistic god which you ascribe to.

I am neutral and require explanation as if I were completely ignorant of any argument for a god.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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10-10-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
As you seem reluctant to use the word proof, perhaps the question should be phrased as such, can you demonstrate that the concept of a god is logically plausible?

Start with your definition of god.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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10-10-2012, 01:01 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Why does God hate babies who have not sinned?

Scriptures indicate that God knows that babies in the womb have not done anything good or evil. They also indicate that God hates some babies even while in the womb and innocent. It is also said that God creates us and our characters. Our characters, as we evolve, cannot help but do evil. God then is responsible for the evil that we will do as he has created our natures. Natures that we cannot help but follow.

We can blame our free will and the choices we make for the evil that we do but this does not explain why our God created natures decide to do evil. Theistic evolutionists try to explain this paradox but the average literalist or fundamental Christian does not follow their reasoning.

We have no choice and no free will to deviate from our God given sin nature and God would know this as it is was all planned. Jesus was to die even before man was created. That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin.

If we have no choice in following our sin natures, and cannot deviate from our part in God’s plan, then what is God’s reason for punishing us for being exactly what he created and programmed us to do?

That is why Adam’s sin is called a necessary sin. He could not help but sin and neither can any of us. You cannot help but do evil and thus sin.

This is all rather abstract so if you like I will imagine a viable scenario for us to work with. We all know that many are starving to death in various countries. Imagine one of these starving children walking past a farmer’s apple tree. The child knows that if he steals the apples that the farmer’s family will starve to death. He or she has a choice of either stealing apples to prevent their death or not. The survival instinct being our first instinct, I think apples will be eaten.

That child’s God given nature will choose life, as all natures do by default, and eat an apple. Does that child deserve hell when it’s God given nature drove it to sin?

We cannot do anything but follow our basic God given natures. Do we deserve hell for doing so?

Is God’s punishment unjust?

If sin was required for Jesus to manifest, Adam had to sin. Would his punishment and death have also been unjust?

Did God, knowing Adam would be a sinner and cause God’s/Jesus’ death, hate Adam as well when he was creating him?

Regards
DL

This clip explains theistic evolution and how you cannot help but do evil and sin.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ProfMTH#g/c/...F680C1DBEB
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