2 questions to ask a theist.
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25-09-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  V -

Moving the goalpost now? Now I have to disprove Santa? No, as you know I said there was ample evidence against Santa. I provided some of that evidence, which then a person looks at the evidence and concludes that Santa probably doesn't exist.
Please learn to read properly, thank you.

In this post, which you yourself quoted, I specifically asked you which evidence you have to disprove Santa. Next time you may want to get your facts straight before you accuse someone of committing a fallacy. Because what you just did was committing the strawman fallacy.

(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  But let's get to your list for "evidence" against God.

1. Claimed 'miracles' turn out to be fake every single time.
a. I would say there are many folks who disagree, and since you haven't witnessed each miracle (especially those you don't know have happened) you can't say this for certain.
2. Faith healing doesn't work
a. same as above. Many people claim that it does - since you weren't there you can't say for sure.
3. Prayer doesn't do anything
a. what is it supposed to do? God's a vending machine? But again, many people say it does.
Anecdotal evidence is not reliable evidence. There is no scientific evidence to support the validity of either of these.

(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  4. No evidence for god
a. I would argue and many Christians would argue there is.
5. No evidence for angels, devils or any other supernatural creatures
a. Ditto.
Feel free to share this evidence with us. In the past 2000 years, nobody has been able to do so. Do you think you're the first one to be able to do it? Consider

(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  6. We can trace back god's origins
a. please do...I would be interested in this link it up!
The Old and New Testament.

(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  So your list, V is nothing but assertions YOU would like to be true. However, unlike my list that I provided I gave SPECIFIC examples and reasons. You just offer yourself up as the authority that God doesn't exist by your assertions.
See above.

(25-09-2012 04:36 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Yeah...didn't think you could do it.
7. No need for god(s) to explain anything
etc.
You have yet to disprove Santa Claus, buddy. Also, my examples were just as specific as yours.

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25-09-2012, 05:19 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 05:02 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  How was logic then created if it does exist?

Logic is a terme, invented by human beings to bring order to that chaos that your creator has left behind. (almost a joke) Angry

Logic is a tool to find out how the world works.
It was created be humans like Aristoteles and other philosopers.
Its actually a exersice of the brain to solve problems and argue with other people to build society's.
No need for invisible friend's her, sorry.

If atheism is a religion, then not playing football is an Olympic discipline.
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25-09-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
word of advice IFC, there are some brilliant minds at work here. Do not attempt to engage in philosophy or science. Seriously, have ten extra tabs open with wikipedia so that you can get some decent background knowledge in these subjects. You have already shown how little you possess. Do not assume that you are correct, smarter than anyone here and undefeatable in an argument.

And yes incase you are wondering i have nothing on my lower half.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

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25-09-2012, 06:32 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
(25-09-2012 08:35 AM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  
(25-09-2012 07:47 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Why am I once again out of Vanilla coke?

Can you go and buy me some Vanilla coke?

I am insulted by the idea of Vanilla coke!
I will burn your internet-present's and chope off your broadband cable connection.
There is no coke except cherry coke!

Yuck! That stuff is repulsive.
It's like that disgusting Dr Pepper crap, HOW DO YOU PEOPLE LIKE THAT SHIT!

Quote:THEY HAVE VANILLA COKE IN NZ!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? IM FUCKING MOVING TO NEW ZEALAND!!!

Years ago they brought out vanilla coke in Ireland, but after a few months they removed it Sad It was the nicest thing I had ever tasted.

You have good taste buds there good sir.

Yip, they have it in 1.5L bottles for like $2(1 pound, $1.5US).

Also don't feed the troll people, it's probably Bish/Arch again. Can't get enough.

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25-09-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
1. You're unconscious during surgery and something happens. You're now either dead or in a coma. Can you tell which one has happened ?

2. You come home from work and find the house wrecked. Everything inside the house is broken and expensive items are missing. Do you assume god did it or do call the police, begin to gather evidence, and try to figure out what the real explanation is ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-09-2012, 07:00 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Marco -

"It (logic) was created be humans like Aristoteles and other philosopers."

Huh, so logic didn't exist before Aristotele and other philosopher. before then, nothing made sense and illogic was everywhere...gotcha.
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25-09-2012, 07:23 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
If I may interject..........


I think some of you may be making a mistake writing IoC off as a troll. I'm seeing someone who is willing to engage, and who is willing to share his take on things. Agree with him or not, Christian does not equal troll.

Atheists,

Remember that the best way to troll here is to be a Christian troll. Hence why all our trolls are Christians. And because we get so few Christians that are genuinely looking to talk, it seems like every troll is Christian. If you make this assumption, the rare genuine guy is gonna quickly leave this forum, and we lose out on the potential for good discussions, heated debates, where both sides are passionate, and a possible member of our community. Let's remember too, it wouldn't be the first time a Christian became a highly respected member of this forum.

Christians,

Please try to understand what I wrote above. It can be so frustrating when we see arguments we've heard many times before that we can lash out pretty easily. Plus, on this forum in particular a lot of us (myself included when I'm not being all adminy and shit) are VERY free with our speech. So you'll need a thick skin to be around us, but after you've put in some time, we do mellow out. Not much, but a bit.

Prepare to have lots a shit tossed at you. Prepare to have every second person on here complain that you haven't answered their post yet. Prepare for the assholes to always shout loudest, just like in the real world. Prepare to even be written off by some. But if you're willing, you may just find that all that shit can just roll off your back.














As you were.

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25-09-2012, 07:40 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Stark,

Thanks for the kind words. Believe me, I know the Christian troll as well - not a fan of them either.
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25-09-2012, 08:19 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
V -

"Idiot for Christ Wrote:
(v) 6. We can trace back god's origins
(IFC)a. please do...I would be interested in this link it up!"

V's answer: The Old and New Testament.

Gotta love it!
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25-09-2012, 11:05 PM
RE: 2 questions to ask a theist.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my comments. I wanted to use a theistic approach to Santa, so you could see what it's like for an atheist to have a god debate. I think the results are pretty interesting.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  But where they elves and did they work in the N. Pole did they make toys for Santa? I'm sure the little people of the world would be glad to know you might think of them as elves. But yes, I would agree that "seeing" little people such as you stated could be evidence of them...yet I haven't seen such a proclomation from said little people...so your at best just SPECULATING that they "could" be elves.

If a little person proclaimed to be an elf, would you then accept that as evidence, as Jesus claims to be the son of God?

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Well, how many children are there in the world? Yeah, to make all those toys (that are already made by OTHER companies? Lawsuit anyone?) it would have to be a fairly large factory. Second, Obvious Santa has powers to exist outside of our natural laws? Please cite, don't assert. Also, those "not so big structures" are still seen aren't they? And given that there isn't much in the way of structures in the N. Pole pretty much ANY structure would be seen. Especially one using light - to which the factory most likely would.

Please cite? Sure. The stories of Santa say he does his work in one night. He simply must have supernatural powers. Your bible talks of talking snakes, arks, healing miracles, everlasting reward and damnation, Satan, and a man who lives inside a fish. And you take issue with an over sized toy factory?

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  This is bad...really...Um, well for one they are to be stabled AT Santas supposed shop. Also, given that there are stories of them being spotted flying...they can BE SEEN flying. Also, SANTA might exist beyond space-time, however, the deer don't and there is no evidence (as we would expect there to be) that they do.

So you say there are stories of the deer seen flying. You cannot use this as evidence against the deer being beyond space-time unless you accept that the stories are true. If you don't accept that the stories are true, then the deer are indeed beyond space time. If you do, you must accept that there are flying deer.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  No guy ever actually claiming to be Jesus has ever proven he was Jesus.
irrelevant to the discussion at hand, dodges the question, also it doesn't refute the statement.

My point was, you're ok with religious claims, but not ok with Santa claims. Your logic is at odds with your belief.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Anecdotal. Priests comments again irrelevant to the discussion. Please cite more than just your parents that don't admit to providing said toys and even better: find parents (with adult children) claim that Santa DID provide the presents that they couldn't.

My parents to this day say Santa brought the presents. You cannot refute that.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Again, you keep making irrelevant statements (to bolster your weaker arguments to follow, I know, but really to make a solid argument you should stay ON TOPIC). why MUST Santa make the toy? Assertions don't make it so. I think Sony would have something to say about Santa making their PS3...

Why MUST god send down a flesh version of himself to be sacrificed by us so he can forgive us for being what he created? You won't accept Santa, but you do accept the concepts of sin and forgiveness in the bible. Why is one ok while the other is not?

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  3. All Santas found at malls around Christmas times are actually persons playing Santa.
Yeah. The baby Jesus at my old church's nativity scene turned out to be a neighborhood baby. I understand your disappointment here.

And you don't even try here....

You made a statement. I made a similar statement. My statement is as valid and logically sound as yours. You implied that mall Santa being a normal person disproves santa. So I implied that church jesus being a normal baby disproves jesus. If my statement doesn't work, why does yours.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  No, he simply channeled the word of Santa, as the bible's authors did with the word of god.
Another assertion without ANY citation to back it up.

But you believe the bible is the word of god... because the bible says so.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  6. Santa's origins can be traced back - try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus for more info.
The concept of all-powerful gods can also be traced back. As well as scapegoats. Miracles. Magical powers. Creation of the earth. Etc.

I can trace your religion back, and then some. If tracing back disproves Santa, then it disproves your religion as well.

(25-09-2012 04:57 PM)Idiot for Christ Wrote:  Ah...the "opinion" word. Well, regardless of your "opinion" you pretty much failed to refute any of what I listed as evidence AGAINST Santa. You didn't even stay on topic in your answers. Nor, did you cite a source (other than yourself) for ANY of the assertions you made.

See, you used some sound arguments against Santa. Yet if I make those same arguments against god, you don't accept them. It's interesting that you can not believe in Santa, or Allah, or Bhuddah, and believe in God, with the same mind.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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