2016 Was the Deadliest Year Ever for LGBT Americans
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14-06-2017, 08:55 PM
RE: 2016 Was the Deadliest Year Ever for LGBT Americans
Quote:You can't count on something being charged as a hate crime to consider whether it was motivated, even in part, by a person's LGBTQ status. The fact of the matter is that LGBTQ people face a higher murder rate than cis-het people. It's not disingenuous to acknowledge that fact. It is disingenuous to pretend it's not happening just because some of the murderers were lovers or family members or drug-related, or victims were sex workers, etc.

He's not denying LGBT people have higher murder/suicide rates.
He raises a very valid point, one I thought of when I read your OP too, that these statistics likely don't show what the article is claiming.
You can't just claim a crime was LGBT-related just because the person was LGBT. If someone is gay and robs a store and gets shot in the process that's nothing to do with LGBT.
Someone going into a gay club and shooting people, that IS LGBT related and worth noting.

You also have to take into account that being LGBT is more widely accepted and so more and more people are coming out as LGBT so of course certain statistics relating to that will increase. The number of murders could be on the rise but the percentage of murders of the overall LGBT population could be decreasing.

You have to be careful with statistics and how you present them. Always be cautious when the media use them, they like to use them disingenuously to enforce their own agenda.


And before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not denying that LGBT have a higher suicide and homicide rate. It is a concern of mine.
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15-06-2017, 01:19 AM
RE: 2016 Was the Deadliest Year Ever for LGBT Americans
(14-06-2017 08:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:You can't count on something being charged as a hate crime to consider whether it was motivated, even in part, by a person's LGBTQ status. The fact of the matter is that LGBTQ people face a higher murder rate than cis-het people. It's not disingenuous to acknowledge that fact. It is disingenuous to pretend it's not happening just because some of the murderers were lovers or family members or drug-related, or victims were sex workers, etc.

He's not denying LGBT people have higher murder/suicide rates.
He raises a very valid point, one I thought of when I read your OP too, that these statistics likely don't show what the article is claiming.
You can't just claim a crime was LGBT-related just because the person was LGBT. If someone is gay and robs a store and gets shot in the process that's nothing to do with LGBT.
Someone going into a gay club and shooting people, that IS LGBT related and worth noting.

You also have to take into account that being LGBT is more widely accepted and so more and more people are coming out as LGBT so of course certain statistics relating to that will increase. The number of murders could be on the rise but the percentage of murders of the overall LGBT population could be decreasing.

You have to be careful with statistics and how you present them. Always be cautious when the media use them, they like to use them disingenuously to enforce their own agenda.


And before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not denying that LGBT have a higher suicide and homicide rate. It is a concern of mine.


See Also: The rise in the rate of children diagnosed with autism, as both the medical understanding of the disorder increased and the definition was broadened.

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20-06-2017, 07:54 AM
RE: 2016 Was the Deadliest Year Ever for LGBT Americans
(14-06-2017 08:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:You can't count on something being charged as a hate crime to consider whether it was motivated, even in part, by a person's LGBTQ status. The fact of the matter is that LGBTQ people face a higher murder rate than cis-het people. It's not disingenuous to acknowledge that fact. It is disingenuous to pretend it's not happening just because some of the murderers were lovers or family members or drug-related, or victims were sex workers, etc.

He's not denying LGBT people have higher murder/suicide rates.
He raises a very valid point, one I thought of when I read your OP too, that these statistics likely don't show what the article is claiming.
You can't just claim a crime was LGBT-related just because the person was LGBT. If someone is gay and robs a store and gets shot in the process that's nothing to do with LGBT.
Someone going into a gay club and shooting people, that IS LGBT related and worth noting.

You also have to take into account that being LGBT is more widely accepted and so more and more people are coming out as LGBT so of course certain statistics relating to that will increase. The number of murders could be on the rise but the percentage of murders of the overall LGBT population could be decreasing.

You have to be careful with statistics and how you present them. Always be cautious when the media use them, they like to use them disingenuously to enforce their own agenda.


And before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not denying that LGBT have a higher suicide and homicide rate. It is a concern of mine.

That is a fair point, muffs, but I would counter by saying that it's difficult, if not impossible, to measure just how much a person's LGBTQ status has to do with a crime committed against them. A hypothetical scenario: if dudes A and B have sex, and dude B experiences "gay panic" and murders dude A- then it maybe just looks like a domestic violence case that resulted in a murder. Unless dude B admits to said "gay panic", how does anyone know whether this issue is at play?

So, to a degree, in order to determine how much violence is committed against LGBTQ individuals, you need to look at overall crime rates committed against LGBTQ individuals vs overall crime rates against cis-het individuals. The conclusion being drawn here is that LGBTQ individuals experience a higher rate of murder than cis-het individuals- regardless of whether their LGBTQ status was at play. That's something worth noting, and the conclusions that can be drawn from it are wide-ranging: but it boils down to LGBTQ individuals may experience higher murder rates due to a variety of factors. The factors involved are wide-ranging.

For example- trans individuals turn to sex work at a higher rate than cis individuals. Sex work is inherently dangerous, and you're more likely to experience violence. Why do trans individuals turn to sex work? That's worth investigating. I suspect that you'd see that trans people have a harder time getting a job and keeping a job, maybe due to their trans status.

So you can't just look at the surface-level crime report and draw any sort of conclusion about it. But you can look at statistics to gain insight into existing problems.
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20-06-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: 2016 Was the Deadliest Year Ever for LGBT Americans
Sad I feel like humanity should be doing better in 2017. We've come a long way, but still have so far to go.

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