264 Commandments
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13-05-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
SitaSky Wrote:If God KNOWS it's our nature to be sinful and he made us this way than doesn't that make him deeply flawed and actually really stupid
God didn't create us. God created Adam and Eve. They didn't have sinful nature. When they ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil they transgressed the law in innocence. They had no idea what good(right) and what evil(wrong) were and the difference between those two.
After Adam chose to partake of the fruit he became fallen man. His children got his nature - fallen nature.
SitaSky Wrote:If God knew we would not be able to follow his laws than why give us any laws or rules to go by?
So, we could learn to obey at least some of them. It is better to obey some laws than none of them. To obey at least some laws is already progression. It is all about progression.
SitaSky Wrote:He is totally hypocritical, he says not to kill, then says kill prophets of other Gods, kill homosexuals, kill women who have sex before marriage, etc
A teacher told his students not to touch anything that is on his desk, after this teacher touched stuff on his desk. Hypocritical?
A parent told his oldest children that they can not punish youngest siblings if those disobey his rules. Later that day parent punished his youngest children for being disobedient. Hypocritical?
SitaSky Wrote:If its immoral to kill and to kill many people all at once in a genocide why is it ok when he does it?
Why is it OK for a parent to punish his own children but it is not OK when the older siblings take an authority to punish their younger siblings?
Why is it immoral for you to kill innocent people? A: You can not give them life back. You can not restore what you took away. It is NOT fair.

God can and will give life back to every person He killed. They will have again what was taken from them. They will have a better life. You are NOT capable to do this.
You do NOT have an authority or right to this. God has this authority and right. He has the ability to restore life of every person He kills. It is fair - life will be restored.

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13-05-2016, 04:47 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
SitaSky Wrote:
Alla Wrote:The Bible is not flawless.
That's gotta be the biggest understatement in all of human history, I mean wow considering how many people have lived and died by that book, been killed because of that book, enslaved, tortured....just wow.
Yes, just wow. What else can I say? I agree with you.


SitaSky Wrote:if your God's book isn't perfect than he isn't perfect
The Bible is NOT His book. The Bible is the creation of men in the 3rd century.
God doesn't write the books. His prophets do. They are imperfect men. God makes sure they are accurate on important principles. Principles that effect salvation.
If there are errors and they do NOT effect salvation of men God doesn't care about those errors. Why would He if they are NOT important for salvation?

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13-05-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
(13-05-2016 04:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  The Bible is NOT His book. The Bible is the creation of men in the 3rd century.
God doesn't write the books. His prophets do. They are imperfect men. God makes sure they are accurate on important principles. Principles that effect salvation.
If there are errors and they do NOT effect salvation of men God doesn't care about those errors. Why would He if they are NOT important for salvation?

Every part of the book should be important for salvation, the nature of God as written in the Bible is begging for any reasonable and truly moral person to have no choice but to reject it. Even if the only thing the Bible ever said is
"There is a God and he loves you, he wants you to go Heaven and be with him, he wants you to be happy and he wants to forgive you but he needed to kill his mortal son in order to do that and grant salvation first."

This would still be bad and immoral and definitely worth questioning if this God is worth worshiping, why the blood sacrifice? If he loves us, just forgive us, it shouldn't be that complicated.

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13-05-2016, 05:05 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
(13-05-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  God didn't create us. God created Adam and Eve. They didn't have sinful nature. When they ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil they transgressed the law in innocence. They had no idea what good(right) and what evil(wrong) were and the difference between those two.
After Adam chose to partake of the fruit he became fallen man. His children got his nature - fallen nature.

According to your belief God created Adam and he was flawed, he committed a sin and now we are all going to be sinful because of this, still God's fault. He created a flawed being that is incapable of following a simple rule/law.

(13-05-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  So, we could learn to obey at least some of them. It is better to obey some laws than none of them. To obey at least some laws is already progression. It is all about progression.

To obey a law is a moral imperative, not a spiritual one, it's also important to any philosophy that deals with a social contract and the best practices of a civilized and stable community of humans, still nothing we need a God for since many societies were able to figure this out before religion and many modern secular societies follow laws they feel are for the best interests of everyone, no religion needed.

(13-05-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  A teacher told his students not to touch anything that is on his desk, after this teacher touched stuff on his desk. Hypocritical?
A parent told his oldest children that they can not punish youngest siblings if those disobey his rules. Later that day parent punished his youngest children for being disobedient. Hypocritical?

It's hypocritical since the rule of not touching anything on the desk is not a moral absolute or objective like God's laws are supposed to be. A teacher or parent is not expecting any kind of worship or idolatry like God does, God says he's right because he's right, that's it, no subjectivity at all so yes when he breaks his own rule it's hypocritical.

(13-05-2016 04:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  God can and will give life back to every person He killed. They will have again what was taken from them. They will have a better life. You are NOT capable to do this.
You do NOT have an authority or right to this. God has this authority and right. He has the ability to restore life of every person He kills. It is fair - life will be restored.

It's not fair because he took their Earthly life away from them for an arbitrary reason , has God killed every bad person who has ever lived? No, but he did directly kill every human except Noah's family that one time, did they all deserve it? Maybe but that includes babies and small children, do babies and small children deserve to die?

Even if you say, yeah well if they are bad kids but they only got to live for so long, why are some people able to live to 80, have a family, a career, etc. but some only live to 10 years old, barely able to experience anything this life has to offer? Oh it's ok because God will give their life back to them? Great but they still didn't deserve to have it taken away in the first place and they barely got to do anything with it, that is not fair. I'm no saying it needs to be fair since I believe the nature of our universe is chaotic so nothing will be fair but you say it is fair when it's not. It will never be fair no matter how you look at it.

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13-05-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
SitaSky Wrote:Every part of the book should be important for salvation,
why?
SitaSky Wrote:the nature of God as written in the Bible is begging for any reasonable and truly moral person to have no choice but to reject it
The Bible is not very clear on the nature of God. The Bible is also not clear at all on why God created this world, why He created Adam and Eve, why He let Satan to tempt them, why He allows evil in this world, why He makes covenants with some people.
When someone does not have answers to those questions it is easy to reject many things in the Bible. I can agree on that.
SitaSky Wrote:he wants you to be happy and he wants to forgive you but he needed to kill his mortal son in order to do that and grant salvation first
According to what book did God claim that He NEEDED to KILL His Son in order to grand salvation? There is no this claim in the Bible for sure.
SitaSky Wrote:This would still be bad and immoral and definitely worth questioning if this God is worth worshiping, why the blood sacrifice?
So, why is the blood sacrifice? You say it is immoral and bad so you must know and understand the reason why blood sacrifice is necessary.
SitaSky Wrote:If he loves us, just forgive us, it shouldn't be that complicated.
But it is more complicated than you think. If God just forgives us then He is merciful but He is NOT just. If God is NOT just He can NOT be God.
So, how can God forgive us and at the same time be just? Do you know?

If God does NOT forgive us than He is just but He is NOT merciful. If God is NOT merciful then He can NOT be God.
So, how can God be just and at the same time be merciful? Do you know?


God is both Justice and Mercy.
So, do you know what God has to do to satisfy Mercy without robbing Justice?

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13-05-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
(13-05-2016 04:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-05-2016 04:11 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Good.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12
I do NOT believe this is correct translation

I'm glad you admit that you pick and choose what you believe.

Laugh out load


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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13-05-2016, 06:12 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
(13-05-2016 05:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  
SitaSky Wrote:Every part of the book should be important for salvation,
why?

I'm just going to answer this question since it's all connected. The book as a whole is the recounting of the life and times of your God and his flawed human creations, if you cherry pick the parts you like and say "See? This part right here is all about salvation and it's the most important part, the rest is flawed." then how can you know that, the men who wrote the Bible were flawed, wouldn't that make the entire book flawed?

How do you know what parts are flawed and to simply ignore them? If it's the inerrant word of a God than it should be perfect. You are already admitting that you are flawed, Adam fell, we're fallen, etc. so how can you tell with your flawed fallen mind that some parts of the Bible are foolish nonsense? If even one part or let's say two thirds are nonsense why not throw out the whole damn thing? If God shows himself to be an immoral asshole in one part shouldn't we dismiss anything he has to say or anything he does after that? Why does the salvation part make him so damn perfect all of a sudden? He's already a jerk at this point.

If a man, Joseph Smith wrote your fancy new Bible and he was just a fallen man with a fallen nature how can you be sure this book is the right one? If it was the truth why can't we all read it? Why was he the only one able to decipher the gold tablets with the special seer stones? If he was a prophet and so was Moses and he helped write the Bible too who do you believe when they contradict each other? Do you choose Joseph Smith because he's more recent? Is the truth only true if it's closer to our time?

If the laws Moses wrote down are no longer valid after the death of Jesus why does the Bible say that he came to fulfill law, not to change them? If that is the case then what Moses wrote down is just as valid as what Joseph Smith wrote down, if not more so since Moses was part of God's favorite tribe of people, plus you can't know for sure he wasn't lying. I could say an angel came and told me Zeus is the one true God, would you believe me? What makes Joseph Smith so believable?

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13-05-2016, 06:15 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
(13-05-2016 03:26 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Oh good. You got all 613 commandments listed. Now I hope you all know why we don't proselytize and we don't want you to convert to Judaism. Can you image trying to sell a list like that to anyone? Laugh out load
(13-05-2016 03:16 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  ...
Leviticus
Sacrifice an unblemished young bull as a burnt offering. 1:2-9
...

Dear Aunt Aliza,
I'm desperately worried!
I've recently converted to Judaism and am trying so hard to uphold all the commandments.

I think I might have erred by using blemished old bull.

Does this mean I'm a Mormon?

What should I do?

Yours
Concerned (Utah)


(13-05-2016 03:16 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  ...
Give God 10% of everything you have. 27:30
You can buy your 10% tithe back by paying 20%. 27:31
Give God 10% of your cattle, without regard to quality. 27:32-33a
The cattle tithe cannot be redeemed. 27:33b

Such an obvious con trick ... "God says you must give me your money."

I can't imagine anyone falling for that nowadays.

Consider

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13-05-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
SitaSky Wrote:According to your belief God created Adam and he was flawed,
Not according to my LDS Doctrine. Adam was perfect.
SitaSky Wrote:he committed a sin
No, he didn't. He transgressed the law without understanding that it was evil/sin. There is the difference between sin and transgression.
SitaSky Wrote:and now we are all going to be sinful because of this, still God's fault.
I wouldn't say that it is God's fault that we are sinful. But it was part of His plan that we are born in fallen state, thanks to Adam and Eve. It is very important that we are born this way. Very important. Adam unknowingly helped God to accomplish this part of the plan. Satan unknowingly helped God.
SitaSky Wrote:To obey a law is a moral imperative, not a spiritual one, it's also important to any philosophy that deals with a social contract and the best practices of a civilized and stable community of humans, still nothing we need a God for since many societies were able to figure this out before religion and many modern secular societies follow laws they feel are for the best interests of everyone, no religion needed
If those societies do not care or do not know about eternal life than they don't need God and they can make their own moral standards.
SitaSky Wrote:It's hypocritical since the rule of not touching anything on the desk is not a moral absolute or objective like God's laws are supposed to be. A teacher or parent is not expecting any kind of worship or idolatry like God does, God says he's right because he's right, that's it, no subjectivity at all so yes when he breaks his own rule it's hypocritical.
According to what book did God say that His laws are moral absolute?
According to what book did God say that He is right because He is right?
SitaSky Wrote:It's not fair because he took their Earthly life away from them for an arbitrary reason ,
Is it fair they did NOT choose when they had to be born(they had to come to this earth)?
Is it fair that some are born in the USA and some are born in North Korea? Was it fair that I was born in a stinking socialist country?
We do NOT choose when to come to this earth, we do not choose when to leave this earth. Only Gods choose our time on earth. Only Gods choose where we are born. Why? Because They know what we don't know.
If we knew what Gods know we probably could choose when to be born, where to be born, when to die, how to die, what trails to have in this life.
SitaSky Wrote:has God killed every bad person who has ever lived? No,
No.
SitaSky Wrote:but he did directly kill every human except Noah's family that one time, did they all deserve it?
Not all deserved to die at that time. Little children were innocent. But God who chose when they had to be born chose when they had to die.
We all have to die. It is part of the plan. It doesn't matter how we die. We all die different ways. So, they died not because they deserve it but because their time was over in this EVIL world. They did NOT have to suffer more among evil people who abused them.
All little children are perfect and innocent.
SitaSky Wrote:but they only got to live for so long, why are some people able to live to 80, have a family, a career, etc. but some only live to 10 years old, barely able to experience anything this life has to offer?
If the Bible was clear on why God created us and this earth you wouldn't ask this question. In order to have the answer you have to know LDS Doctrine.
God decides when we are born, where we are born. Sometimes He decides when we die and how we die. Sometimes He let nature or evil people to decide how we die and how we die.

There are two reason why we are born here on earth.
1) to obtain physical bodies
2)to be tested

Those who die as little children obtain physical bodies. They will be tested during Millennium.

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13-05-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: 264 Commandments
SitaSky Wrote:I'm just going to answer this question since it's all connected. The book as a whole is the recounting of the life and times of your God and his flawed human creations, if you cherry pick the parts you like and say "See? This part right here is all about salvation and it's the most important part, the rest is flawed." then how can you know that, the men who wrote the Bible were flawed, wouldn't that make the entire book flawed?
I do NOT believe that God would allow that those parts of the book that are important for salvation of men would be flawed. I just can't believe this.
Parts that ere not important for salvation can be corrupt. God would allow this.
You say that everything in the Bible has to be important for salvation.
Then you probably have no trouble to explain to me how this info is important for salvation of men:
1)is one day of creation = 24 hours or millions of years?
How and why is it important for my salvation to know accurate number?
2)did Jesus hang on the cross for 3 hours or for 9 hours?
how is accurate number is important for salvation of men?
SitaSky Wrote:How do you know what parts are flawed and to simply ignore them?
I am more than happy to share with you this info. It is really very simple.
The part which helps me or you to be more like Christ is important for my and your salvation. The part that does NOT help me or you to be more like Christ is NOT important for my or your salvation.
So, how can an accurate a number help me or you to be more like Christ? Do you know?
SitaSky Wrote:If it's the inerrant word of a God than it should be perfect.
In what book does God claim that the Bible is inerrant word of God and it should be perfect? I don't know. Can you tell me where you got this info?
SitaSky Wrote:If a man, Joseph Smith wrote your fancy new Bible and he was just a fallen man with a fallen nature how can you be sure this book is the right one?
I don't believe that BoM is the right book or perfect book I believe the BoM has fullness of the Gospel. It helps men to be more close to Christ, to be more like Christ. It is very important for salvation.
SitaSky Wrote:If it was the truth why can't we all read it?
It is available for every one. Do you want a copy? JK. I know you don't want a copy.
SitaSky Wrote:Why was he the only one able to decipher the gold tablets with the special seer stones?
2 reasons:
He was chosen before the earth was created
He was the only one who was ready to do this at that time.

SitaSky Wrote:If he was a prophet and so was Moses and he helped write the Bible too who do you believe when they contradict each other? Do you choose Joseph Smith because he's more recent? Is the truth only true if it's closer to our time?

No, the truth is always the truth. They(the books) don't contradict each other.
SitaSky Wrote:If the laws Moses wrote down are no longer valid after the death of Jesus why does the Bible say that he came to fulfill law, not to change them?
Jesus did NOT change the law. He fulfilled it. That is why He said this. But Pharisees thought He was changing the law of Moses. They were wrong.
Jesus was fighting their OLD TRADITIONS. Those traditions were NOT law of Moses.
SitaSky Wrote:If that is the case then what Moses wrote down is just as valid as what Joseph Smith wrote down, if not more so since Moses was part of God's favorite tribe of people,
Moses was Levite. It was not God's favorite tribe. Joseph was God's favorite. Tribe of Joseph is God's favorite. Joseph Smith is from the tribe of Joseph.
[quote="SitaSky"]plus you can't know for sure he wasn't lying.

True. I can not know that for sure. I can only be convinced. I am convinced that Joseph Smith testimony is true.
SitaSky Wrote:I could say an angel came and told me Zeus is the one true God, would you believe me?
Should I?
SitaSky Wrote:What makes Joseph Smith so believable?
I believe that God convinced me by the power of the Holy Ghost that LDS Doctrine is true. This is the only reason why I believe. I can't deny what I believe God revealed to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.

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