3 questions for atheists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 8 Votes - 1.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-01-2014, 03:44 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(15-01-2014 03:20 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What is this disconnect between my ideas and how I convey them? How do you have such insight into this?I find it strange that you say this after your brief intro,...
It's hardly insight. All I had to do is read page after page of you striving over the definition of one word. As it seemingly turns out, you're arguing for a distinction without a difference. No need to be an active participant to discern that.

Brownshirt Wrote:... your own perspective being so vague yet you seemed to expect it to be inherently understood.
Right there is an example of your disconnect.
Your stated assumption of what you think is my "expectation", is wrong. Nowhere do I allude to an expectation of my beliefs being somehow inherently understood. That's all you.
Don't think for others. Just read what they have to say.

For my part, I don't feel you are trolling. But you seem to have a touch of, "I'm the smartest guy in the room" syndrome. Intelligence is what it is and can't be increased past the point of what we are each endowed with.
What can be increased is wisdom.
Personally, I'll take wise over smart any day.
If this were your position, you would have noticed that the conversation had stalled, made a concession and moved the discussion forward.

Eh. You'll do what you think is best and it's resulting consequence.

That's the way I see it.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2014, 06:38 AM
Re: RE: 3 questions for atheists
(15-01-2014 04:49 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  So you're atheist towards any humanly defined gods but not a deist god?

If you're atheistic towards gods this would include a deist god would it not?

I have no issue not believing religion but when it crosses over into this generics gods stance it becomes very very grey.

Deism is still a religious claim as well, so of course I would be atheistic to that to the same way as I am to YhWh and Odin.

The difference here is I don't deny I can be atheistic and agnostic to some claims at the same time.

Reality is full of grey areas, but if you don't believe something, you don't believe it.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like ClydeLee's post
16-01-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
To throw another cat in the bag, im a skeptic and I think Atheism/agnostism are redundant as s result.
Skepticism FTW

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 02:25 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 01:45 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Brownshirt, on what basis can you claim that an atheist makes an assertion as to whether or not a god exists?

The over dependence on evidence and comparing any form of god, no matter how conceptual or briefly defined to fairies etc indicates an implied assertion to me.

You are mistaken. There is no assertion implied.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Chas's post
16-01-2014, 09:08 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 08:05 AM)sporehux Wrote:  To throw another cat in the bag, im a skeptic and I think Atheism/agnostism are redundant as s result.
Skepticism FTW

I have said before, and will say it again, atheism is a result of skepticism. It's a conclusion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
16-01-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 02:25 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 01:45 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Brownshirt, on what basis can you claim that an atheist makes an assertion as to whether or not a god exists?

The over dependence on evidence and comparing any form of god, no matter how conceptual or briefly defined to fairies etc indicates an implied assertion to me.

Over dependence on evidence, or simply a penchant for viewing reality as it is?

The problem is that believing in fairies is a slippery slope. A good skeptical attitude would do this world a heap of good. I won't deny possibilities, but I can't place faith in that which has no credible evidence. I understand this can be uncomfortable for people who are too lazy to think, but that's not my problem.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like evenheathen's post
16-01-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 03:44 AM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 03:20 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What is this disconnect between my ideas and how I convey them? How do you have such insight into this?I find it strange that you say this after your brief intro,...
It's hardly insight. All I had to do is read page after page of you striving over the definition of one word. As it seemingly turns out, you're arguing for a distinction without a difference. No need to be an active participant to discern that.
[/quote]

Brownshirt Wrote:... your own perspective being so vague yet you seemed to expect it to be inherently understood.
Quote:Right there is an example of your disconnect.
Your stated assumption of what you think is my "expectation", is wrong. Nowhere do I allude to an expectation of my beliefs being somehow inherently understood. That's all you.
Don't think for others. Just read what they have to say.

So you were being vague and knew it? That makes less sense.
Quote:For my part, I don't feel you are trolling. But you seem to have a touch of, "I'm the smartest guy in the room" syndrome. Intelligence is what it is and can't be increased past the point of what we are each endowed with.
What can be increased is wisdom.
Personally, I'll take wise over smart any day.
If this were your position, you would have noticed that the conversation had stalled, made a concession and moved the discussion forward.

Eh. You'll do what you think is best and it's resulting consequence.

That's the way I see it.

Trolling is different to different people, I disagree and know that I do. So I do know that an argument will ensure, but that's a result of the difference of perspective. Call it trolling if you like, I'm not bothered.

My position is I don't think we will ever know. The dependence on atheists to dwell on their lack of belief seems so trivial and pointless.

Perhaps you hadn't noted, but many atheists presume their position is for the clever. Maybe you subscribe to that, personally I dislike the hypocrisy.

This conversation has stalled, so be it. I'm not making a concession over something I deem to be fundamental to it. Agnosticism and atheism are mutually exclusive, and unless you're anti-theism I don't see any point in identifying as a atheist.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 06:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 04:49 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  So you're atheist towards any humanly defined gods but not a deist god?

If you're atheistic towards gods this would include a deist god would it not?

I have no issue not believing religion but when it crosses over into this generics gods stance it becomes very very grey.

Deism is still a religious claim as well, so of course I would be atheistic to that to the same way as I am to YhWh and Odin.

The difference here is I don't deny I can be atheistic and agnostic to some claims at the same time.

Reality is full of grey areas, but if you don't believe something, you don't believe it.

I don't think Deism is religious at all, it's essentially equivalent to proposing a prime mover, first cause and that's about it.

I don't get why you'd dwell on your lack of belief, when you don't know. Presumably you'd need to know to believe? So it renders belief and atheism redundant.

I don't know that we know exactly what reality is, all we know is what we perceive/observe. Making absolutes about 'reality' is a step too far for me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 09:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 02:25 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  The over dependence on evidence and comparing any form of god, no matter how conceptual or briefly defined to fairies etc indicates an implied assertion to me.

You are mistaken. There is no assertion implied.

Of course not, you just chose something which doesn't exist, and has no reason to exist, to prove your point.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-01-2014, 02:07 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(16-01-2014 09:54 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 02:25 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  The over dependence on evidence and comparing any form of god, no matter how conceptual or briefly defined to fairies etc indicates an implied assertion to me.

Over dependence on evidence, or simply a penchant for viewing reality as it is?

The problem is that believing in fairies is a slippery slope. A good skeptical attitude would do this world a heap of good. I won't deny possibilities, but I can't place faith in that which has no credible evidence. I understand this can be uncomfortable for people who are too lazy to think, but that's not my problem.

How are you in any position to state we can see reality as it is? We know different animals have heightened/lowered senses towards many things, what absolves humans from this?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: