3 questions for atheists
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19-01-2014, 08:16 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  you've already chosen a materialist conclusion.

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

This has been explained many times in this thread, and you have chosen to ignore it. Why is that? Consider

Oh yeah, because it answers your question but you just can't have that. You need to have a reason to be here, even though you don't.

(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What evidence could you accept which would not be material? If you really consider yourself to not know whether materialism is true, I see no reason for you to expect evidence to be presented. All you could ever do is rationalise something, if there is a deity wtf are you expecting, a cosmic fingerprint or something?

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

The perspective makes perfect sense, you just don't like it. Too bad, we don't fucking care.

What evidence would falsify materialism? It doesn't matter. ( Laughat see what I did there?)

What we know to be true is what is material. The atheist position does not deal with materialism, only with the claim that a supreme being exists. If one did, it might very well be (should be, for that matter) a part of the material world and therefore knowable. However there has been no evidence for this to be true, so atheism is a practical position to hold. It does not claim that there cannot be a god, only that there is no evidence for one. You can stop tapdancing at any point.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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19-01-2014, 08:20 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 07:49 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 07:45 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You still can't answer

How can materialism be proven to be wrong?

Yay scepticism to everything bar materialism. Hard to take it seriously isn't it?

Have your immaterial gawd show up and do some parlour tricks. And disappear into thin air.



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19-01-2014, 08:30 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 08:16 PM)evenheathen Wrote:   The atheist position does not deal with materialism, only with the claim that a supreme being exists. If one did, it might very well be (should be, for that matter) a part of the material world and therefore knowable. However there has been no evidence for this to be true, so atheism is a practical position to hold. It does not claim that there cannot be a god, only that there is no evidence for one. You can stop tapdancing at any point.

Indeed.


Of course, every theist claim has included some claim that their particular deity has appeared to humans in one way or another. And a deity (and its existence) which did not somehow appear or make itself known to us in one way or another would be entirely irrelevant. Which makes ShitStain's little shell game totally irrelevant as well.

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19-01-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 08:16 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  The atheist position does not deal with materialism, only with the claim that a supreme being exists.

This is why I took The Matrix approach. How he feels about me now is how I felt all those weeks ago about him when he made the OP.

I ain't here other than to pick the rotten meat off of this stupid fucking threads bones.

Haters gonna hate, but...

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19-01-2014, 08:48 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2014 08:57 PM by ClydeLee.)
Re: RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 07:42 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You've entered a point of answering no questions and repeating nonsense proclamations. Typical tactics of someone refusing to accept their position.

Again, why would I have a concept of knowing how to "expect it?" You seem to have no understanding of how to pose questions without presumptions behind them.

I don't know how materialism could be shown to be wrong or if it could be. That's my answer... it's not presuming to have knowledge of an answer.

It seems you have trouble deciphering questions and proclamations. That I repeat a question is due to it not being answered. Sorry bout that.Wink

You require evidence to accept an assertion. All evidence is either material or the product of a material process. Your entire basis works towards a materialist conclusion, that you claim to not know is a red herring, you've already chosen a materialist conclusion.

What evidence could you accept which would not be material? If you really consider yourself to not know whether materialism is true, I see no reason for you to expect evidence to be presented. All you could ever do is rationalise something, if there is a deity wtf are you expecting, a cosmic fingerprint or something?

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

No you honestly don't know how to make questions not having assertions in them.

Can materialism be proven wrong?

And

How would you expect materialism to be proven wrong?

Another example, your question 2) what's the purpose of atheism?

Are two different styles of questioning. You repeatedly use the latter two involve assumptions the party being asked expects or proclaims to expect something/meaning existing.

I don't expect evidence to be present, I've told you over and over yet you can't comprehend that apparently. That's why you find it makes no sense, you keep wanting to ad things to it that aren't there.

The position is to not expect, not presume, and not assert claims. If a wave of information that pertained to supernatural immaterial origins was recognized, I would recognize it but still skeptical of knowing what it was, whether it was knowable what it was, and how to proceed from that point.

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19-01-2014, 11:48 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 08:16 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  you've already chosen a materialist conclusion.

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote:This has been explained many times in this thread, and you have chosen to ignore it. Why is that? Consider

As you choose what to be sceptical about

Quote:Oh yeah, because it answers your question but you just can't have that. You need to have a reason to be here, even though you don't.

Nope you think you've answered it, you haven't

(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What evidence could you accept which would not be material? If you really consider yourself to not know whether materialism is true, I see no reason for you to expect evidence to be presented. All you could ever do is rationalise something, if there is a deity wtf are you expecting, a cosmic fingerprint or something?

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote:The perspective makes perfect sense, you just don't like it. Too bad, we don't fucking care.

You don't have to care, I just want to see if you can rationalise your assumptions.

What evidence would falsify materialism? It doesn't matter. ( Laughat see what I did there?)

What we know to be true is what is material. The atheist position does not deal with materialism, only with the claim that a supreme being exists. If one did, it might very well be (should be, for that matter) a part of the material world and therefore knowable. However there has been no evidence for this to be true, so atheism is a practical position to hold. It does not claim that there cannot be a god, only that there is no evidence for one. You can stop tapdancing at any point.

This is just a materialist perspective. You didn't deny it or demonstrate how materialism can be wrong, why? Because it would completely undermine your perspective

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19-01-2014, 11:55 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 11:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is just a materialist perspective.

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It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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20-01-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 08:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 07:53 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  It seems you have trouble deciphering questions and proclamations. That I repeat a question is due to it not being answered. Sorry bout that.Wink

You require evidence to accept an assertion. All evidence is either material or the product of a material process. Your entire basis works towards a materialist conclusion, that you claim to not know is a red herring, you've already chosen a materialist conclusion.

What evidence could you accept which would not be material? If you really consider yourself to not know whether materialism is true, I see no reason for you to expect evidence to be presented. All you could ever do is rationalise something, if there is a deity wtf are you expecting, a cosmic fingerprint or something?

Your perspective makes no sense whatsoever.

No you honestly don't know how to make questions not having assertions in them.

Can materialism be proven wrong?

And

How would you expect materialism to be proven wrong?

Another example, your question 2) what's the purpose of atheism?

Are two different styles of questioning. You repeatedly use the latter two involve assumptions the party being asked expects or proclaims to expect something/meaning existing.

I don't expect evidence to be present, I've told you over and over yet you can't comprehend that apparently. That's why you find it makes no sense, you keep wanting to ad things to it that aren't there.

The position is to not expect, not presume, and not assert claims. If a wave of information that pertained to supernatural immaterial origins was recognized, I would recognize it but still skeptical of knowing what it was, whether it was knowable what it was, and how to proceed from that point.

if you really believe that, why do you consider yourself to be an atheist, due to your lack of belief?

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20-01-2014, 12:11 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 11:55 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(19-01-2014 11:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is just a materialist perspective.

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20-01-2014, 12:45 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(19-01-2014 11:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  This is just a materialist perspective.

If you say so, sure. You tell me why it shouldn't be.

(19-01-2014 11:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You didn't deny it or demonstrate how materialism can be wrong, why?

I didn't deny it because it has no consequence to our discussion. Your question as to how materialism can be wrong is a red herring.

(19-01-2014 11:48 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Because it would completely undermine your perspective

Nice projection, not to mention that you are simply copying what I said and redirecting it at me. The problem for you is that my position is backed up by common sense and the fucking dictionary. You only have a poorly thought out position that can only be substantiated by........well it can't, really. But you do a good job of redirection and subterfuge.

You have no argument.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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