3 questions for atheists
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20-01-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 02:45 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  EH and Chippy, please could you post definitions or links for the tenets of nihilism?

I haven't done a whole lot of reading about nihilism, so I'm not even sure that my definition is correct. All I have is what I take from the idea and what I've thought about it.

I guess what I've taken from it is that on the whole of things, the sum of our existence is essentially meaningless. Our effect on the universe is nonexistent thus far, outside any special purpose given by an ultimate creator. Being an atheist negates any special purpose so what I am left with is simply....existence. Good or bad, right or wrong, it is what it is but not much else beyond what meaning I can ascribe to my own life experience.

Therefore any concept concerning humanity, morality, or purpose can ultimately be discarded as meaningless if you want to take it that far. I don't want to in most cases, but as far as the contemplation of existence goes, that is where I end up.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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20-01-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 01:28 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What evidence do you have which tells you it's the correct assumption to make? Let me guess, because evidence is obtained this transcends to materialism. It creates a conclusion in the absence of certainty, but luckily it can pretend to be certain.

You need to justify it.

It would be helpful if you were even able to craft an intelligible sentence.

Just sayin'.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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20-01-2014, 12:26 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 03:10 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Ok I will never get the atheist who lacks belief. I lack belief in a religion but don't identify as an atheist. I don't see why I would. I could imagine theists using it as a pejorative, or those who negate a god, but anyway.

Fallacious appeal to personal incredulity.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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20-01-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 03:23 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  i can't see how someone would take the label of atheism unless you wanted to be antagonistic to theists. I lack belief but don't define my position based on what i don't do.

Fallacious appeal to personal incredulity.

Your refusal to see is your problem alone.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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20-01-2014, 12:32 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 12:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 10:43 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  What?Blink

He's on point. Look at many of the ancient gods, the greek ones in particular. A lot of them were complete petty assholes. The only compelling reason to worship them would be self preservation. Shit, OT YhWh falls into this category as well. But it doesn't make the concept of their existence any more or less believable.


I get a bit stuck on how they became deity in the first place.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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20-01-2014, 12:33 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 12:32 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 12:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  He's on point. Look at many of the ancient gods, the greek ones in particular. A lot of them were complete petty assholes. The only compelling reason to worship them would be self preservation. Shit, OT YhWh falls into this category as well. But it doesn't make the concept of their existence any more or less believable.


I get a bit stuck on how they became deity in the first place.

Anthropomorphism and a need to explain the unknown.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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20-01-2014, 12:36 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2014 12:59 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 08:06 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 07:07 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  ^^ Wishful thinking at its worst.

You think that's bad, Chippy has a hard on for me... Rolleyes

No, he has a grudge. He is obviously incapable of achieving a hard-on at all. Don't let that belligerent poseur bother you with his inane and bombastic philosophistry. He has me on ignore because he knows I know he's a loud-mouthed punk-ass rent-boi, all bark and no bite at all, and called him on it at every turn until he ran away.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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20-01-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 12:33 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 12:32 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I get a bit stuck on how they became deity in the first place.

Anthropomorphism and a need to explain the unknown.

Yes.........and
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worship

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21-01-2014, 12:40 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(20-01-2014 05:33 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(20-01-2014 02:45 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Chippy, in your view, is agnostic atheism a reasonable position, or as Brownshirt holds to, does an atheist position make agnosticism impossible?

Quote:That depends on whether any conceptions of deity are logically coherent. Some appear to be so they are at least logically possible. But given the problem of evil and the problem of divine hiddenness (as per Schellenberg) these deities, although logically possible, are highly improbable. The question then resolves to whether agnosticism or atheism is most appropriate for these logically possible but highly improbable deities. Consistent with fallibilism I would suggest that an agnostic disposition is apt. The predictable response is: Are you also agnostic about Zeus, FSM etc? The short answer to that is yes but with the qualification that these deities are even less probable than the highly improbable deities because they are unparsimonious.

I don't see why the problem of evil and divine hiddeness reduce the probability of deity, although they may discount a specific deity (depending on its proposed traits). Also, to assume something is highly improbable assumes that ability to obtain, rationalise and calculate a probability. We cannot even begin to determine our ability to do this, let alone state what is probable. If we had some idea of what percentage of the whole picture we had then sure, but we don't. In my opinion we're looking for the appearance of certitude where none exists.

Personally I am atheistic towards defined gods but would hardly define myself on this basis. It's superfluous fluff which only opposes someone else's view. Even the same god has different traits depending on who you're talking to. Human involvement can and will probably only fuck it up.

Quote:The net result is that I am effectively atheistic, i.e. the probability of any deity (that is logically coherent and parsimonious) being real is so small that it has no practical influence on any aspect of my worldview. But in strict terms I am agnostic--I don't claim certitude where I am unable to justify it. The only good reason that I can think of to claim certitude is to be an ignostic (or igtheist). If you are able to successfully show that all conceptions of deity are logically incoherent then no god is logically possible and the probability of any god existing becomes 0. I remain unconvinced of igtheism (as do the majority of atheistic philosophers of religion).

I still don't understand the common atheist contention that a deity's probability is so low that it has no practical influence (e.g. going to church, preying etc). Perhaps if you mean the probability of Jesus being the son of God etc, and assess this probability based on the claims and historical evidence etc I can understand. Making a claim about the improbability of a deist god, seems impossible to me. You're making the same statement about any deity, not just one.
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21-01-2014, 12:45 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(21-01-2014 12:40 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  preying.

hee hee.Laughat

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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