3 questions for atheists
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29-12-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 02:48 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Why not.



1. Why do you have an active lack of belief?

If by active you mean vocal about it, it's because I live in a country where there is a push to force laws and values based on religions and also to attempt to force people to believe a certain, irrational way, and I see the need to speak up against it...to protect my values and freedoms as a non-believer.

2. What is the purpose of atheism?

There is no "purpose" to atheism other than as a descriptive word to explain how one sees things.

3. Why believe evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god?

I honestly don't think there will ever be evidence for gods. However I wouldn't ignore it if evidence, real solid evidence, was given. (Although if there was evidence and it supported any of the gods held by religions today , I would refuse to worship anyway, due to the immoral nature of the described gods)


I'm sure thats been repeated 100 times. But here you go.
Thanks. That makes sense. I can understand atheism as being against religion as it's position opposes religion. It's when it goes beyond that I have issues with it.
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29-12-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 07:57 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I do lack belief in a god, but don't define myself based on what I lack belief in. It seems like such a pointless endeavour. ...

I essentially remain open to many possibilities but don't focus on lacking belief in one (or several groups) beliefs. So I stop at saying "I don't know", hence I see myself as an agnostic. It's commonly atheists who claim the lacking of belief means I'm an atheist, that's fine if that's your definition, but I really don't identify as an atheist.

Labels are different to hats, you can wear many at the same time, they cost nothing and you don't need the appropriate occasion to wear the "right" one.
Me I wear the following:
Atheist
Boxing fan
Heavy Metaller
Guitarist
IT professional
Son
Brother
Husband
Father
Human
Amoralist
Nihilist
Home Handyman
Peter Jackson, Spielberg, Ridley Scott fan
Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Helloween, Anthrax, Annihilator, Within Temptation, Judas Priest fan

So many labels, none on their own define who I am but that isn't any reason to reject them all.
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29-12-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
I dont care if other people are religious. But it needs to stay out of government and law. *shrug*
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29-12-2013, 03:55 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 03:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 02:48 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Why not.



1. Why do you have an active lack of belief?

If by active you mean vocal about it, it's because I live in a country where there is a push to force laws and values based on religions and also to attempt to force people to believe a certain, irrational way, and I see the need to speak up against it...to protect my values and freedoms as a non-believer.

2. What is the purpose of atheism?

There is no "purpose" to atheism other than as a descriptive word to explain how one sees things.

3. Why believe evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god?

I honestly don't think there will ever be evidence for gods. However I wouldn't ignore it if evidence, real solid evidence, was given. (Although if there was evidence and it supported any of the gods held by religions today , I would refuse to worship anyway, due to the immoral nature of the described gods)


I'm sure thats been repeated 100 times. But here you go.
Thanks. That makes sense. I can understand atheism as being against religion as it's position opposes religion. It's when it goes beyond that I have issues with it.

No, you describe anti-theism. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods.

And what is "beyond that"?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 03:54 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I dont care if other people are religious. But it needs to stay out of government and law. *shrug*
...and in support of this is to insist that moral beliefs stay out of law.
Insisting that religious based moral beliefs are unacceptable but replacing with secular moral beliefs is hypocritical.
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29-12-2013, 04:07 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 03:54 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  I dont care if other people are religious. But it needs to stay out of government and law. *shrug*
...and in support of this is to insist that moral beliefs stay out of law.
Insisting that religious based moral beliefs are unacceptable but replacing with secular moral beliefs is hypocritical.

No, that's not what she said. If a religion requires or disallows something that no one else requires or disallows, it does not belong in the law. That would be legislating specific religious values.

No one said 'morality'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:03 PM)Stevil Wrote:  ...and in support of this is to insist that moral beliefs stay out of law.
Insisting that religious based moral beliefs are unacceptable but replacing with secular moral beliefs is hypocritical.

No, that's not what she said. If a religion requires or disallows something that no one else requires or disallows, it does not belong in the law. That would be legislating specific religious values.

No one said 'morality'.

Exactly. For example, in the extreme, banning birth control because Catholics dont like it is unacceptable.
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29-12-2013, 04:15 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:10 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, that's not what she said. If a religion requires or disallows something that no one else requires or disallows, it does not belong in the law. That would be legislating specific religious values.

No one said 'morality'.

Exactly. For example, in the extreme, banning birth control because Catholics dont like it is unacceptable.
I wasn't criticising Hobbitgirl. I was agreeing with her. But, I was extending it further.
For example if a secular humanist deems late term abortion to be immoral thus wants it outlawed, how is this any different to a Catholic that deems any abortion to be immoral thus wants all abortion outlawed?
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29-12-2013, 04:17 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2013 02:51 PM by kim.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 02:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I'm not really looking to introduce myself. I've never understood that in forums.

Oh, I understand. There are people here who consider this a community of sorts. Often people in communities introduce themselves. It's ok too, if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

(29-12-2013 02:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You post, they reply and find out about people that way. If you have questions just ask.
Oh, ok.
Why are you here on this particular forum?
Are you trying to learn about different ideas and people ... possibly to find out why those ideas and people are different than you and your ideas?
Do you frequent other forums? If so, what kinds?
(I surmise you have been, since you previously spoke about not understanding about introductions in forums.)

(29-12-2013 02:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  You can tone down the condescension I'm only intolerant of those who try to define my position., which is not strange at all.

I did not intend to come across as condescending rather, intolerant of intolerance. Shy
Oh, by the way... don't mind Taq; he is, shall we say... territorial. Often his youthful, over zealous, tactlessness can miss a few things but, if he'd just slow down he might (can) have some interesting things to say. I liken him to a beloved chihuahua... easy to ignore but don't turn your back on him or he might rip your leg off. Wink

As for defining one's position... this seems to be a good little chart...
[Image: nb2mO.jpg]
With nice round circles. Shy
Although frankly, I couldn't give a shit one way or the other. Faith, god, religion; irrelevant in the inter-workings of my life so, meh. Nice graphic, though.

(29-12-2013 02:27 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I find it interesting that many people take offence to my questions.
I don't think people took offense... I think they were merely trying to clarify them in order to respond to them.
For instance:

1. Why do you have an active lack of belief?

I (and others, it seems) do not understand what you mean when you refer to "active" lack of belief. Do you refer to atheist activism? Are you conflating activism with someone's lack of faith? ... Those might be very different things... again, to different people. I can be an activist whilst having a total lack of faith... I am and I do. (this is why forums have introductions) Click on my name to view my brief bio.

Also, perhaps there are people here willing to state that they are quite certain there is no god. Although, probably hard pressed to find a hard core, 100%, full-on atheist. Though, I suppose they are around. Just as there are hard core, 100%, full on theists... I can tell you we do have a few of those here.

The position comes across as one who wants to be recognised as one who negates any form of god but not have to prove anything.

Position? Are you talking about the position of being atheist - the position of being without faith in a god? That refers to the belief that God does not exist; a position of "belief" may be unsubstantiated and makes no claim, per se. A position which does not make a claim, carries no burden of proof.

2. What is the purpose of atheism?

I don't know if there is a purpose as such... atheism does stand in opposition to theism.

3. Why believe evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god?

I don't know that evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god. Perhaps that is an expectation you have assumed of the average person on this forum? There again, I don't expect evidence to confirm or negate... I already don't believe a god exists. Evidence is fine if someone thinks they need to come up with some ... but as I said before, a god is irrelevant to my life.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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29-12-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:10 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  Exactly. For example, in the extreme, banning birth control because Catholics dont like it is unacceptable.
I wasn't criticising Hobbitgirl. I was agreeing with her. But, I was extending it further.
For example if a secular humanist deems late term abortion to be immoral thus wants it outlawed, how is this any different to a Catholic that deems any abortion to be immoral thus wants all abortion outlawed?

The difference is primarily the application of the Constitution's non-establishment clause.

Many issues are contentious and need to be argued and discussed on their merits, not on the position of a religion.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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