3 questions for atheists
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 8 Votes - 1.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-12-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  The difference is primarily the application of Constitution's non-establishment clause.

Many issues are contentious and need to be argued and discussed on their merits, not on the position of a religion.
I'm not an American so don't know much about the constitution.

But I feel there is no point in specifically addressing religion.
There are many beliefs that are not religious based and all these beliefs should be dealt with the same way.

I am highly for debate and open conversation. But when it comes to law I don't want a majority rules based law, I don't want a beliefs based law.
I want a law that recognises and supports diversity and tolerance.
One where the government support society rather than imposes upon society.

Imposing moral beliefs in my view is unacceptable and is hypocritical if we say that imposing religious based moral beliefs are not OK but imposing secular moral beliefs are OK.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 04:37 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  The difference is primarily the application of Constitution's non-establishment clause.

Many issues are contentious and need to be argued and discussed on their merits, not on the position of a religion.
I'm not an American so don't know much about the constitution.

But I feel there is no point in specifically addressing religion.
There are many beliefs that are not religious based and all these beliefs should be dealt with the same way.

I am highly for debate and open conversation. But when it comes to law I don't want a majority rules based law, I don't want a beliefs based law.
I want a law that recognises and supports diversity and tolerance.
One where the government support society rather than imposes upon society.

Imposing moral beliefs in my view is unacceptable and is hypocritical if we say that imposing religious based moral beliefs are not OK but imposing secular moral beliefs are OK.

You are missing the point.
One secular humanist isn't going to impose anything, but the Roman Catholic Church, for example, has and uses political power.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 04:43 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are missing the point.
One secular humanist isn't going to impose anything, but the Roman Catholic Church, for example, has and uses political power.
As happens in many countries, millions of secular people impose their secular moral beliefs on others e.g. prostitution, gay marriage laws, polygamy, late term abortion etc.
For us secular people to be consistent we need to stop using law to impose our own form of morality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 04:51 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are missing the point.
One secular humanist isn't going to impose anything, but the Roman Catholic Church, for example, has and uses political power.
As happens in many countries, millions of secular people impose their secular moral beliefs on others e.g. prostitution, gay marriage laws, polygamy, late term abortion etc.
For us secular people to be consistent we need to stop using law to impose our own form of morality.

Don't forget beating kittens. I mean if we are going to generalize and all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 04:52 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:37 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are missing the point.
One secular humanist isn't going to impose anything, but the Roman Catholic Church, for example, has and uses political power.
As happens in many countries, millions of secular people impose their secular moral beliefs on others e.g. prostitution, gay marriage laws, polygamy, late term abortion etc.
For us secular people to be consistent we need to stop using law to impose our own form of morality.

Sorry, no. That is what law is. It reflects the zeitgeist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 05:44 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:43 PM)Stevil Wrote:  As happens in many countries, millions of secular people impose their secular moral beliefs on others e.g. prostitution, gay marriage laws, polygamy, late term abortion etc.
For us secular people to be consistent we need to stop using law to impose our own form of morality.

Sorry, no. That is what law is. It reflects the zeitgeist.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 05:46 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 05:44 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Sorry, no. That is what law is. It reflects the zeitgeist.
It doesn't have to be that way.

What are you even arguing here? You seem to be just contradicting to contradict.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 03:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 07:57 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I do lack belief in a god, but don't define myself based on what I lack belief in. It seems like such a pointless endeavour. ...

I essentially remain open to many possibilities but don't focus on lacking belief in one (or several groups) beliefs. So I stop at saying "I don't know", hence I see myself as an agnostic. It's commonly atheists who claim the lacking of belief means I'm an atheist, that's fine if that's your definition, but I really don't identify as an atheist.

Labels are different to hats, you can wear many at the same time, they cost nothing and you don't need the appropriate occasion to wear the "right" one.
Me I wear the following:
Atheist
Boxing fan
Heavy Metaller
Guitarist
IT professional
Son
Brother
Husband
Father
Human
Amoralist
Nihilist
Home Handyman
Peter Jackson, Spielberg, Ridley Scott fan
Iron Maiden, Megadeth, Helloween, Anthrax, Annihilator, Within Temptation, Judas Priest fan

So many labels, none on their own define who I am but that isn't any reason to reject them all.

All of your other labels are things you do, enjoy or are. Does an atheist require religion for it to exist as a label?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 05:49 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 03:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Thanks. That makes sense. I can understand atheism as being against religion as it's position opposes religion. It's when it goes beyond that I have issues with it.

No, you describe anti-theism. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods.

And what is "beyond that"?

I have never met an atheist who is for or even neutral towards religion.

Beyond that would be naturalism/materialism which is a common cause for atheism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-12-2013, 06:00 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(29-12-2013 05:49 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I have never met an atheist who is for or even neutral towards religion.

Why, should we be?

Onward, my faithful steed!
[Image: ezgif-save_zps4d93a674.gif?t=1395781443]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: