3 questions for atheists
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26-01-2014, 09:31 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 04:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What about the lack of evidence for a 'natural' reason for existence? Unless you're willing to posit we have sufficient knowledge to accurately propose the probability.

Huh

I thought we were talking about the probability of existence of something, not the probability of there being a reason for the existence of something.

Consider

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26-01-2014, 09:52 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2014 09:58 PM by Brownshirt.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 09:31 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 04:21 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  What about the lack of evidence for a 'natural' reason for existence? Unless you're willing to posit we have sufficient knowledge to accurately propose the probability.

Huh

I thought we were talking about the probability of existence of something, not the probability of there being a reason for the existence of something.

Consider

I can only say what I'm talking about. I think working out what we're talking about will take some time.

I'm not talking about a reason exactly, as a natural "reason" is somewhat contradictory and would assume an agent which would not align with the use of natural in this context.. I am talking about the probability for a natural cause or a non-deity process and the knowledge required to propose this probability.
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26-01-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 02:13 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 03:06 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Those terms are confusing. That my position took a paragraph to explain means that those words--agnostic and atheist--are not really doing the work they should be doing.

Why not just say, "I am a metaphysical naturalist"? I think that better captures my position.

I have always viewed as metaphysical naturalism as strong atheism, as it asserts that nature is all there is?

True but it can be understood as an inductive conclusion rather than a deductive conclusion and in that sense the unwarranted certitude is removed, i.e. the natural world is all that there is likely to be.
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26-01-2014, 11:29 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 09:52 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  ...
I can only say what I'm talking about. I think working out what we're talking about will take some time.
Laughat Big Grin

Quote:I'm not talking about a reason exactly, as a natural "reason" is somewhat contradictory and would assume an agent which would not align with the use of natural in this context.. I am talking about the probability for a natural cause or a non-deity process and the knowledge required to propose this probability.

Cause and process for what? Everything? Natural and supernatural?
Consider
I guess, I think of it like this...
Leaving aside all the baggage that goes with the word 'cause', I think it's safe to assume that natural stuff has natural causes.
So I guess that supernatural stuff (whatever that is) might have supernatural causes.

So we can ask ...
a) Can natural stuff be caused by supernatural causes?
b) Can supernatural stuff be caused by natural causes?

And then your question... can we ever know?

If the set of all stuff is finite, then the more we know about stuff, the more natural stuff there is and the less supernatural stuff there is.
i.e. once something supernatural is known and understood, it goes into the natural bucket with all the other natural stuff.

Which means that the ultimate question must be... is the set of all stuff finite?

We already know that the answer to the ultimate question is... 42.

And we know that the sum of infinite natural stuff = -1/12

Therefore we know that the sum of:
Finite natural stuff +
Finite supernatural stuff +
Infinite supernatural stuff
---------------------------------
42 minus -1/12
or 42 + 1/12

We also know that the ultimate question itself = "what do you get when you multiply 6 x 9" so the probability of knowing whether this is knowable =
54 / (42 + 1/12)

Which is greater than 1.

Therefore... atheist!

QED.

I hope that puts this question to rest now but if you have any questions please contact Chippy (usual consulting rates apply).

Cheers.

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26-01-2014, 11:50 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2014 11:54 PM by Baal Buster.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
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My integrity cannot be "bought and paid for".
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27-01-2014, 01:07 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 10:25 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 02:13 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  I have always viewed as metaphysical naturalism as strong atheism, as it asserts that nature is all there is?

True but it can be understood as an inductive conclusion rather than a deductive conclusion and in that sense the unwarranted certitude is removed, i.e. the natural world is all that there is likely to be.

It makes more sense to me if the natural world is all that we're ever likely to 'see'.
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27-01-2014, 01:11 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(26-01-2014 11:29 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(26-01-2014 09:52 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  ...
I can only say what I'm talking about. I think working out what we're talking about will take some time.
Laughat Big Grin

Quote:I'm not talking about a reason exactly, as a natural "reason" is somewhat contradictory and would assume an agent which would not align with the use of natural in this context.. I am talking about the probability for a natural cause or a non-deity process and the knowledge required to propose this probability.

Cause and process for what? Everything? Natural and supernatural?
Consider
I guess, I think of it like this...
Leaving aside all the baggage that goes with the word 'cause', I think it's safe to assume that natural stuff has natural causes.
So I guess that supernatural stuff (whatever that is) might have supernatural causes.

So we can ask ...
a) Can natural stuff be caused by supernatural causes?
b) Can supernatural stuff be caused by natural causes?

And then your question... can we ever know?

If the set of all stuff is finite, then the more we know about stuff, the more natural stuff there is and the less supernatural stuff there is.
i.e. once something supernatural is known and understood, it goes into the natural bucket with all the other natural stuff.

Which means that the ultimate question must be... is the set of all stuff finite?

We already know that the answer to the ultimate question is... 42.

And we know that the sum of infinite natural stuff = -1/12

Therefore we know that the sum of:
Finite natural stuff +
Finite supernatural stuff +
Infinite supernatural stuff
---------------------------------
42 minus -1/12
or 42 + 1/12

We also know that the ultimate question itself = "what do you get when you multiply 6 x 9" so the probability of knowing whether this is knowable =
54 / (42 + 1/12)

Which is greater than 1.

Therefore... atheist!

QED.

I hope that puts this question to rest now but if you have any questions please contact Chippy (usual consulting rates apply).

Cheers.

That's some deep thought there. Anyhoo, I am a consultant and therefore know how much those fuckerfuckers rip you off.
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27-01-2014, 03:35 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
Anyway, what happened to tourette's? Scared, scarred, licking wounds, arse sniffing, dewormed or finally muzzled?

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27-01-2014, 04:42 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(27-01-2014 03:35 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Anyway, what happened to tourette's? Scared, scarred, licking wounds, arse sniffing, dewormed or finally muzzled?

[Image: ot-668-030-1.jpeg]

I don't think we have a user by the name "tourette's" on this forum.
Perhaps this isn't the forum member you are looking for.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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27-01-2014, 05:30 AM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(27-01-2014 04:42 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(27-01-2014 03:35 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  Anyway, what happened to tourette's? Scared, scarred, licking wounds, arse sniffing, dewormed or finally muzzled?

[Image: ot-668-030-1.jpeg]

I don't think we have a user by the name "tourette's" on this forum.
Perhaps this isn't the forum member you are looking for.

Taqqiya Mockingbird = Tourette's = Tourette's Chimp
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