3 questions for atheists
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28-12-2013, 07:57 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 07:42 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 06:19 PM)Brownshirt Wrote:  No I don't believe in a defined god, I just haven't dismissed the possibility of a form of creator. I personally believe we will never know either way. The question of existence itself appears unanswerable to me.

I can understand those atheists who denounce theism as a response to the control of religion. However once it becomes this paradigm shift towards we can rationalise everything I become very weary.

You sound like an agnostic atheist to me, like most of the atheists I know (myself included). You're over-defining the term, and using "atheist" in place of "gnostic atheist".

Atheism is simply the other side of the on-off switch of theism. Either you believe in one or more gods or you don't. You can not believe in gods by strictly believing there are zero gods or by simply lacking a belief in any of them. It sounds like you are the latter type.

I do lack belief in a god, but don't define myself based on what I lack belief in. It seems like such a pointless endeavour. I'm sceptical to the point of being sceptical whether we will ever have any proof for existence.

I essentially remain open to many possibilities but don't focus on lacking belief in one (or several groups) beliefs. So I stop at saying "I don't know", hence I see myself as an agnostic. It's commonly atheists who claim the lacking of belief means I'm an atheist, that's fine if that's your definition, but I really don't identify as an atheist.
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28-12-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 06:05 AM)Cephalotus Wrote:  You recently joined the forum, have only 5 posts (which are all in this thread,) and you're claiming to be an agnostic despite the fact that your "questions" are incredibly accusatory and presumptuous.

I'm calling bullshit.

If you don't want to answer don't.

How do you call bullshit on a question?
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28-12-2013, 08:07 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 08:11 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 12:36 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  1. Why do you have an active lack of belief?

What kind of question is that, really? Why do you have a lack of belief in leprechauns?

OH WAIT -- what's this "active" business? Some sort of Craig-esque word-salad trap? Non-belief is actually passive. So this is part of your game of trying to shift the burden of proof, by calling non-belief an "active lack of belief? Semantic prestidigitation much?

How about The Emperor Has No Clothes. Is that an "active" non-belief?


Quote: The position comes across.....

It's not a "position" at all. It's a non-position. Are you sure you're not The Thinking Theist in drag?

Quote:...as one....

DO you know the difference between a position and a person? Doesn't look like it.


Quote:...who wants to be recognised as one who negates any form of god but not have to prove anything.

Oh, look, the perpetual xtard attempt to shift its burden of proof. FAIL.


Quote:2. What is the purpose of atheism?

Atheism is a non-belief in certain fairytale superstitions. It needs no "purpose".



Quote:3. Why believe evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god?

Are you sure you're not The Thinking Theist in drag?

"Evidence? I don't need no stinking evidence."

Yeah -- and we don't need to take anything you say seriously without it, anyway.


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It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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28-12-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 10:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 03:09 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  That is an atheist argument to me. I am agnostic and don't use examples of being unable to disprove defined historical gods, fairies, leprechauns et al to prove a point.
The inability to disprove a negative assumes its conclusion.

No, it doesn't. That is an illogical statement.

Yes it does. If you think otherwise, explain why.
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28-12-2013, 08:15 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 08:36 PM by Brownshirt.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 08:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 12:36 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  1. Why do you have an active lack of belief?

What kind of question is that, really? Why do you have a lack of belief in leprechauns?

OH WAIT -- what's this "active" business? Some sort of Craig-esque word-salad trap? Non-belief is actually passive. So this is part of your game of trying to shift the burden of proof, by calling non-belief an "active lack of belief? Semantic prestidigitation much?

How about The Emperor Has No Clothes. Is that an "active" non-belief?


Quote: The position comes across.....

It's not a "position" at all. It's a non-position. Are you sure you're not The Thinking Theist in drag?

Quote:...as one....

DO you know the difference between a position and a person? Doesn't look like it.


Quote:...who wants to be recognised as one who negates any form of god but not have to prove anything.

Oh, look, the perpetual xtard attempt to shift its burden of proof. FAIL.


Quote:2. What is the purpose of atheism?

Atheism is a non-belief in certain fairytale superstitions. It needs no "purpose".



Quote:3. Why believe evidence is (or will be) available to confirm or negate a god?

Are you sure you're not The Thinking Theist in drag?

"Evidence? I don't need no stinking evidence."

Yeah -- and we don't need to take anything you say seriously without it, anyway.


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Seem to have hit a nerve with you. I was bored after reading your first line.
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28-12-2013, 08:36 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 11:19 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 11:14 AM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Is your avatar a masturbating robot?
What ? no its just a robot trampling a DMV Blink


I thought it was trying to get gum off its shoe..

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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28-12-2013, 08:42 PM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2013 08:45 PM by DLJ.)
RE: 3 questions for atheists
Mods,
Please move this to The Melee

Looks like a simple misunderstanding regarding definition is going to end in bloodshed

Tickets available.

[Image: Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif]

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28-12-2013, 08:46 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 08:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Mods,
Please move this to The Melee

Looks like a simple misunderstanding regarding definition is going to end in bloodshed

Tickets available.

[Image: Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif]

Since you asked nicely.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-12-2013, 08:50 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
(28-12-2013 08:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(28-12-2013 08:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Mods,
Please move this to The Melee

Looks like a simple misunderstanding regarding definition is going to end in bloodshed

Tickets available.

[Image: Stephen-Colbert-Popcorn.gif]

Since you asked nicely.

If someone takes offence to few questions around atheism, perhaps they shouldn't come to the internet.

I would prefer that it's not moved as I expect this is meant to be for gladiatorial combat based on the mockingbird bouncer who showed up? I'm not going to begin a shit throwing match, I can't be bothered.
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28-12-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: 3 questions for atheists
Quote:That is an atheist argument to me. I am agnostic and don't use examples of being unable to disprove defined historical gods, fairies, leprechauns et al to prove a point.
Theists make wild claims that they cannot prove. So do snake oil salesmen. Do you buy snake oil because of the miraculous qualities a snake oil salesman tells you it has, without evidence?

Quote:The inability to disprove a negative assumes its conclusion.

Oh, look -- theist semantic prestidigitation. How fun -- another forum chewtoy.

Quote:Being an active atheist to me, would require some atheist activity such as coming here.
YOU came here. So YOU are an active atheist. Answer your own silly loaded questions for us.

Quote:I can understand those who require support from being viewed as an atheist from family and friends who are theist (i.e a response to a position) or being against religion,
So glad you can understand that. Anything else about it that you don't understand is a function of your own willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.
Quote:however s a philosophical standpoint it seems a strange position to take.
It's not a position. It's the rejection of an absurd claim.
Quote:Yes but why? People don't join groups to show what they lack belief in, or don't do.
People join groups because they are sick of being vilified and demonized and made pariahs of and being accused of being unfit parents and shunned and burned at the stake over their lack of belief in fairytales.
Quote:
Quote: 1. An atheist is a description of belief. Agnostic is a description of knowledge.
Atheists are atheistic as far as they dont believe in any God. They are however agnostic as far as they dont know any God actually exists and dont see any substantial evidence for a particular deity.
Yes I've heard that many times. i don't subscribe to the belief/knowledge approach, it tends to be an atheist definition. As an agnostic, I don't believe nor do I disbelieve, I really do not know what to believe.
Then you are not an agnostic, you are an eel-wriggler. And an equivocating quibbler. None of which is going to endear you with anyone of repute here.
Quote:Isn't it odd to actively lack belief in something?
Yes, it sounds like the sort of equivocating word-salad bullshit that Bill Craig would come up with. YOU are the one who brought this phrase here, no one here has ever claimed to hold such a view. Strawman much?
Quote: It seems to be defined on a theists perspective towards their claim. As an agnostic I would say I'm an atheist towards many types of a christian god for example, but still define myself as agnostic as I don't hold a set belief, nor do I pin my views on what others have defined as a god.
You don't know what an agnostic is. Or an atheist. And your quibbling and strawmanning is quite reminiscent of other theist-shill trolls who have been banned from here.
Quote:If a deity exists, I don't assume it must be able to be observed.
In that case such an imaginary deitie's existence would be entirely irrelevant to any of us, so fuck it.
Quote:I personally don't believe evidence is coming, or I think we would know by now otherwise.
And speaking of odd things, isn't it odd that your proposed deity would leave no evidence at all, when any and every deity claim ever made also includes a claim that some yahoo has seen it? herp derp.
Quote:Yes I agree, but you'll notice I said "disprove a negative" not "something".
Oh, look, it's a shell game! How cute.
Quote:No I don't believe in a defined god, I just haven't dismissed the possibility of a form of creator.
I don't think you are being entirely honest with us. We are certainly open to any evidence that you or any other theist might have, but so far, you have been unable to provide any at all.

Quote: I personally believe we will never know either way.
Why do you believe that? What evidence brought you to this conclusion?

Quote:The question of existence itself appears unanswerable to me.
That statement doesn't really even mean anything. But again, every claim of a deity includes a claim of some yahoo who has seen it. And if one could be seen once, it could show itself again, proving its own existence for good and all.
But look -- here comes some more willful ignorance/argument form personal incredulity:
Quote:I can understand those atheists who denounce theism as a response to the control of religion. However once it becomes this paradigm shift towards we can rationalise everything I become very weary.

Oh, WAIT -- I smell the stench of a bullshit-filled burning straw man! Just what is this "paradigm shift towards we can rationalise everything" you speak of? Explain, show your work.

Quote:To me atheism doesn't stand by itself, but many seem to use it in isolation.
It stands in relation to theism, at least at this point in time. IF the Emperor weren't buck-ass naked, it wouldn't occur to anyone to point out that The Emperor Has No Clothes.

Quote:Whatever conclusion you reach you need to believe in a correct approach to take. There's no proof that any epistemology is correct.
There is PLENTY of proof that if someone makes a wild-ass claim without evidence whatsoever to support it, they are full of shit.
Quote:Identifying as a something based on lacking belief in another group's claims is a very odd one to take, unless you're anti-religion.
It might be, unless that other group was actively working to eradicate you, vilify you, discriminate against you, turn your children against you, ostracize you and everyone like you, etc., based on that non-belief.
Quote:So why identify as an atheist and come here?
ibid.
Are you aware that Alla is a theiwst troll? You two should get along quite well together during your short stay here.

Quote:The lack of evidence is commonly used by atheists to denounce a god.
INCORRECT. It is used to reject the CLAIM of a "god". Learn the difference.

Quote:I also think there's no evidence,
You will be getting THIS thrown back in your face many times in your short stay here.

Quote:but why depend on evidence at all unless you consider it can at prove a cause for existence?
WOw -- So few words, so much FAIL.

Quote:I do lack belief in a god, but don't define myself based on what I lack belief in.
And we only "define" ourselves based on our lack of belief when it becomes relevant to do so. I don't walk up to people and say, "Hi, I'm Taq, I'm an atheist" any more than you walk up to people and say "Hi, I'm Brownshit, and I shit brown."
Oh, wait....

Quote:It seems like such a pointless endeavour.
What seems like a pointless endeavour is this thread and your silly quibbling.
Quote:I'm sceptical to the point of being sceptical whether we will ever have any proof for existence.
And yet you fail to connect the dots. Is this willful ignorance on your part, or are you a TTT sock puppet?
Quote:I essentially remain open to many possibilities
And you think we aren't. Go to fucking YouTube and look up Qualia Sup's "Open-mindedness" video. NOW.

Quote:but don't focus on lacking belief in one (or several groups) beliefs. So I stop at saying "I don't know", hence I see myself as an agnostic. It's commonly atheists who claim the lacking of belief means I'm an atheist, that's fine if that's your definition, but I really don't identify as an atheist.
Then why are you whining here about it?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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