"40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
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01-06-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
100 fables doesn't make it more than a fable.

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01-06-2016, 05:37 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 05:34 PM)TSNest Wrote:  100 fables doesn't make it more than a fable.

I suppose so.
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01-06-2016, 05:37 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
fanfictions in the same universe will plenty of times have a common storyline as well.

In fact the bits of writing that were deem Not close enough to the message wanted were deliberately removed and tried to be buried or destroyed.

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01-06-2016, 05:52 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 04:44 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  The thing that still gets me in a twist is when they talk about the 40 different authors in 3 different continents.

Multiple authors extending a story they already know is not very impressive, especially when what is included in the canon was chosen because it generally agreed with the dominant view of the day. There were many other books that were discarded as heretical. What we have is essentially several centuries of fan fiction that has been vetted for agreement with the main theme.

As far as 3 continents go... Europe, Asia, and Africa all meet where the books were written. The cultures all interacted. The claim is technically true, but pointless.
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Even extending the area to include Egypt and the northern Mediterranean we are still talking about a very limited section of the Earth's surface.

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01-06-2016, 06:13 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 06:17 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 02:49 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  I hear this one a lot from Apologists:

Quote:"The Bible was miraculously written. The Bible was written over a 1,500 year period by 40 different men as God's Holy Spirit moved through them. There is NO earthly way possible that so many men (most of whom never met each other), could have written so many different books in different styles that all perfectly merge into one meaningful Book, but with God all things are possible!!!" source: http://jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/gods_word.htm

Quote:"Think about the above realities: 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, impacting readers personally. What’s more, this collection of books shares a common storyline- the creation, fall, and redemption of God’s people; a common theme- God’s universal love for all of humanity; and a common message- salvation is available to all who obey the Gospel and follow God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength. Go figure, these authors had no Pony Express, no teleconferencing, no internet, no Library of Congress and no foreknowledge that the First Council of Nicaea would convene in AD 325 and actually select their little ‘ol piece of prose to be included in one…astonishing…perfect… harmonious…book of Scripture!

If you do not believe that the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, than we challenge you to a test. We challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible. You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents. However, they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions." Source: http://iloveatheists.com/about_us/bible-word-god

Has anyone ever encountered these types of arguments before, and if so, how can you refute them?

A serious debunking of the bible requires many different approaches. Discrediting the OT or NT, for example, can be done book by book, story by story by providing empirical evidence that refutes the Fiction, Fantasy and Forgery that comprises the bible. If one was to remove all of the contradiction, parables, allegorical and pseudonymoous writings from the bible one wouldn't have enough left to wipe one's ass.

We all have our go-to punches. How I counter depends on what their position is. Are they a Young Earth Creationist, Old Earth Creationist, or perhaps one of the many Hybrid Creationist that pick and choose which parts are allegorical, and which parts are truth. Do they acknowledge that the world is not 6,000-10,000 years old? Do they think the mythical global flood of 2349 BCE actually happened? etc etc. So depending on what drivel they posit, how I eviscerate it. Please review my resource thread as full circle recommended. There is much there to get you started.

An easy approach is when they usually start quoting jesus or a specific scripture, I ask...oh? who wrote that? They inevitably have zero clue that for example, Mark did not write Mark. This is an easy way to start planting the seeds of doubt. I normally open with..."did you know no one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him?" This sends them into a frenzy...and for each example of author they present, I rip that author to shreds with historical evidence, scholarly opinion...and i normally use christian biblical scholars, and christian university textbooks where they freely admit, we don't know WHO wrote this book, but "tradition" says Mark wrote it.

You see those who actually have a degree in theology, christianity, NT studies etc know the facts show that X did not write X. They just don't bother to teach those inconvenient facts to their congregation because that would create doubt in the hearts of christians....it is about the MESSAGE you see. But how does one determine the MESSAGE when no one can validate anything that jesus said, there is not one single eyewitness to jesus that bothered to write about it...AT THE TIME. There is zero historical, archaeological, or contemporary evidence to substantiate a single magic story of jesus or god....not one.

Here is an easy home run....

I call it the Zombie refutal:
------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

wow...so zombies...freaking ZOMBIES crawled out of the tombs and "appeared unto many"...and yet...yet...not one literate person at the time thought this was noteworthy enough to write down...nope 50 years later voila! the story is written down after having had this urban legend passed down from person to person...or perhaps completely made up at the time the BS story was fabricated. hmmmmm now a thinking person would suspect that someone at the time would have thought...wow, zombies! and put it into the written record...nope, not...one...word..in ...contemporary history.

Perhaps Philo of alexandria who was a reknown and respected historian who resided in this area during the time of jesus?...nope...but then of course, he never even mentions jesus

The early years of the Roman Republic is one of the most historically documented times in history. One of the writers alive during the time of Jesus was Philo-Judaeus (sometimes known as Philo of Alexandria).

Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ’s miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion happened with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness and resurrection of the dead took place – when Christ himself rose from the dead and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.

These amazing marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, were all unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not, nor apparently even heard of it.

Philo might be considered the investigative reporter of his day. He was there on location during the early first century, talking with people who should have remembered or at least heard the stories, observed, taking notes, documenting. He reported nothing about Jesus.

Odd...

Perhaps Justus..There was also a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: “he [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or other wonderful works that he did.”

hmmmmmmm maybe...now give me a second...maybe it...was....all...made...up
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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01-06-2016, 06:29 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 06:13 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Here is an easy home run....

I call it the Zombie refutal:
------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

wow...so zombies...freaking ZOMBIES crawled out of the tombs [...]

Ergo, fable. Smile Fucking zombies. lol

Call of the Wild asks with disbelief:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...sts--36799
Quote:Do you really believe that the Christian's belief in God is synonymous to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy??

Well ya. Zombies, CotW! Zombies.

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01-06-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 06:29 PM)TSNest Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 06:13 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Here is an easy home run....

I call it the Zombie refutal:
------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

wow...so zombies...freaking ZOMBIES crawled out of the tombs [...]

Ergo, fable. Smile Fucking zombies. lol

Call of the Wild asks with disbelief:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...sts--36799
Quote:Do you really believe that the Christian's belief in God is synonymous to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy??

Well ya. Zombies, CotW! Zombies.

I love the zombie refutal and use it as one of my favorite sticks to smack theists with. Tongue

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid734084

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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01-06-2016, 06:54 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 05:22 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 05:18 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I'm not sure what they mean by different continents, I guess technically you could say Europe and Northern Africa but that's only two, what's the third? Asia...America? If you consider Joseph Smith a prophet than I guess yeah he was American but he was still heavily influenced by the original Bible and if we are to consider him then why not Muhammad and every Christian can go ahead and convert to Islam?

It's a little bit more complex than that. I mean more of the idea that these 40 writers were supposedly "inspired by God". Some apologists will like to say that the phrase "thus saith the Lord" appears in the Old Testament over and over again, thus proving it to be true

Yes but Muhammad and Joseph Smith both claimed to be prophets of God and thought every single message they added to the Bible was inspired by the same God, which is right? Are they both right?

Just because many writers will be inspired by the same basic story that doesn't make it true, think about all the stories we have about James Bond, including all the movies, different writers in different places, he's played by different actors, does that make him real? Of course not, if anything it only shows that he's a popular character.

Even the Jesus myth by itself was heavily inspired by other messiah myths from Northern Africa and the Middle East, he's a copy of a copy and the story was copied some more, doesn't make it true.

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01-06-2016, 09:18 PM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 04:44 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  ...
The thing that still gets me in a twist is when they talk about the 40 different authors in 3 different continents.

How many authors (and from how many continents) do you have?

SkepticalDaniel's authorship:
One mother and one father (2 authors)
4 x grandparents (6 authors)
8 x great-grandparents (14 authors)
16 x great-great-grandparents (30 authors)
32 x great-great-great-grandparents (62 authors)
etc.
Go back enough generations to cover 1,500 years.

Then, you and 65 colleagues all meet at a conference ... let's call it the Bookkeepers' National Conference.

You all count up your ancestors (authors) and a few of you have some relatives in common. Not really surprising.

And then one person (a little drunk at the end of the evening) exclaims, "Isn't it amazing that all of us here can speak English! and we all have a passion for Bookkeeping?"

Wow! Just wow!

Mind-blowing, huh?

Dodgy

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02-06-2016, 05:10 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 02:49 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  If you do not believe that the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, than we challenge you to a test. We challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible. You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents. However, they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions."

There have been over 500 books written about the Star Trek universe over a period of 50 years.

That's a far greater rate than the books of the bible, there have been over 40 different authors, they have been written in far more than 3 languages and probably more than 3 different continents.

They share a common storyline, a common theme and a common message. They contain less historical errors than the bible and there are probably about as many contradictions as there are in the bible.

Praise Kirk! Or his later incarnation, Picard, or his even later incarnation played by Chris Pine in the movies. He freaking saved the entire Federation in that movie! Tongue

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