"40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
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02-06-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(02-06-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 02:49 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  If you do not believe that the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, than we challenge you to a test. We challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible. You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents. However, they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions."

There have been over 500 books written about the Star Trek universe over a period of 50 years.

That's a far greater rate than the books of the bible, there have been over 40 different authors, they have been written in far more than 3 languages and probably more than 3 different continents.

They share a common storyline, a common theme and a common message. They contain less historical errors than the bible and there are probably about as many contradictions as there are in the bible.

Praise Kirk! Or his later incarnation, Picard, or his even later incarnation played by Chris Pine in the movies. He freaking saved the entire Federation in that movie! Tongue

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02-06-2016, 05:32 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 05:22 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  Some apologists will like to say that the phrase "thus saith the Lord" appears in the Old Testament over and over again, thus proving it to be true

I would ask them this:

If we take a copy of the Twilight Trilogy and add "thus saith the lord" at the end of each chapter, does that make it true?


They are essentially saying that since the bible is accurate because the bible says it's accurate. That's not a very high standard of evidence.

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02-06-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(02-06-2016 05:10 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Praise Kirk! Or his later incarnation, Picard, or his even later incarnation played by Chris Pine in the movies. He freaking saved the entire Federation in that movie! Tongue

The Abrams/Pine followers are a heretical group that must be crushed.

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02-06-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
More evidence exists for bigfoot then jesus

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02-06-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 05:22 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 05:18 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I'm not sure what they mean by different continents, I guess technically you could say Europe and Northern Africa but that's only two, what's the third? Asia...America? If you consider Joseph Smith a prophet than I guess yeah he was American but he was still heavily influenced by the original Bible and if we are to consider him then why not Muhammad and every Christian can go ahead and convert to Islam?

It's a little bit more complex than that. I mean more of the idea that these 40 writers were supposedly "inspired by God". Some apologists will like to say that the phrase "thus saith the Lord" appears in the Old Testament over and over again, thus proving it to be true

Well, if you count the myth of Moses which was originally from the Sumerian's Sargon the Great c. 2270 BCE who, the story goes, was placed in a reed basket as a baby, put into a river and later retrieved by a palace servant then raised as royalty and become a great leader, if you count that this story traveled west down the Silk Road you might count parts of China.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is another story that traveled, most likely through the trade and travel routes and was used by Hebrew priests to tell explain why horrible things happen to people. Myths stories have a common theme in the ancient world and despite what many people today think people traveled a lot and the stories traveled with them many of which ended up in Biblical stories.

If you ever get a chance you should pick up a wonderful book by Joseph Campbell called The Power of Myth.

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04-06-2016, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2016 09:07 AM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(01-06-2016 04:20 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 04:14 PM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  I think an example would be like this:


Yes, I've seen that argument, and I can't deny that it's possible that both things happened, but this has nothing to do with the law of non-contradiction. It just says that this particular example is not exactly a contradiction. I've also seen where they deny that Joseph (Mary's husband and Jesus's stepfather) had two different fathers (according to the Bible), but there they claim that "it doesn't really mean what it says" -- which also has nothing to do with the law of non-contradiction. They are just trying to weasel out of obvious problems with the Bible by using fancy phrases from philosophy that don't apply to these situations.
Ok, now I'm curious; what two different fathers?

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05-06-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(04-06-2016 08:57 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 04:20 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Yes, I've seen that argument, and I can't deny that it's possible that both things happened, but this has nothing to do with the law of non-contradiction. It just says that this particular example is not exactly a contradiction. I've also seen where they deny that Joseph (Mary's husband and Jesus's stepfather) had two different fathers (according to the Bible), but there they claim that "it doesn't really mean what it says" -- which also has nothing to do with the law of non-contradiction. They are just trying to weasel out of obvious problems with the Bible by using fancy phrases from philosophy that don't apply to these situations.
Ok, now I'm curious; what two different fathers?

Matthew 1 (15-16)
Elihud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Luke 3 (23-24)
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki,

Matthew and Luke list entirely different genealogies for Jesus.

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05-06-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(05-06-2016 07:26 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(04-06-2016 08:57 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Ok, now I'm curious; what two different fathers?

Matthew 1 (15-16)
Elihud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

Luke 3 (23-24)
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki,

Matthew and Luke list entirely different genealogies for Jesus.
Thanks.

I was unaware of that. But I must admit that though I don't recall exactly where, but in scripture it says not to worry about genealogies.

Not justifying or excusing the error you have pointed out. I'm just saying. There is no doubt that the writings have been manipulated in some way, and/or that some writings are in the canon bible for dishonest reasons.

So you managed to prove something to me...what other strong inconsistencies have you found within the canon bible?

Again, I am honestly curious, and though what you choose to show me most likely won't affect my Faith, it will help me to see the misdirection within the little book. And you can believe that I will be using it, or spreading these things to others, as to me it is duty of a sort.

So thanks.
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05-06-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(05-06-2016 07:43 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was unaware of that. But I must admit that though I don't recall exactly where, but in scripture it says not to worry about genealogies.

Of course anything that questions what you believe for no good reason has to be ignored.

Quote:Not justifying or excusing the error you have pointed out. I'm just saying. There is no doubt that the writings have been manipulated in some way, and/or that some writings are in the canon bible for dishonest reasons.

Which, when considered rationally, calls the whole mess into question and makes it all unreliable unless you have a reliable way to discriminate. Of course, since even writings done for "honest reasons" may not be true so it isn't enough to determine the intentions of the writer. The claims must be matched against reality.

Quote:So you managed to prove something to me...what other strong inconsistencies have you found within the canon bible?

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html
http://bibviz.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

Not all are things that I would agree are actually contradictions but many are. It's what I'd expect from books written over a long time by different people with different agendas. It is not what I'd expect from writings with a single source providing guidance.

Quote:Again, I am honestly curious, and though what you choose to show me most likely won't affect my Faith, it will help me to see the misdirection within the little book. And you can believe that I will be using it, or spreading these things to others, as to me it is duty of a sort.

I wouldn't expect it to affect your faith (which is not a proper noun no matter how often you capitalize it) since you believe because of your personal psychosis.

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05-06-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: "40 Different Authors, 66 Books, Different Languages and Continents" Argument
(05-06-2016 07:55 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(05-06-2016 07:43 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I was unaware of that. But I must admit that though I don't recall exactly where, but in scripture it says not to worry about genealogies.

Of course anything that questions what you believe for no good reason has to be ignored.

Quote:Not justifying or excusing the error you have pointed out. I'm just saying. There is no doubt that the writings have been manipulated in some way, and/or that some writings are in the canon bible for dishonest reasons.

Which, when considered rationally, calls the whole mess into question and makes it all unreliable unless you have a reliable way to discriminate. Of course, since even writings done for "honest reasons" may not be true so it isn't enough to determine the intentions of the writer. The claims must be matched against reality.

Quote:So you managed to prove something to me...what other strong inconsistencies have you found within the canon bible?

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html
http://bibviz.com/
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

Not all are things that I would agree are actually contradictions but many are. It's what I'd expect from books written over a long time by different people with different agendas. It is not what I'd expect from writings with a single source providing guidance.

Quote:Again, I am honestly curious, and though what you choose to show me most likely won't affect my Faith, it will help me to see the misdirection within the little book. And you can believe that I will be using it, or spreading these things to others, as to me it is duty of a sort.

I wouldn't expect it to affect your faith (which is not a proper noun no matter how often you capitalize it) since you believe because of your personal psychosis.
Why yah gotta go callin people crazy? I wanted the ones you personally thought where discrepancies, not a link.

As far as the writings matching up; someone mentioned that the writings span 3 continents 40 writers, and 66 books and that they have the same message.

It goes much further than that though. The writings of all faithful seem to be pretty similar, not just the writings in the bible, and not just the writings of the abrahamic religions.

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