5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
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07-04-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 09:49 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 09:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Because cowards like to kill the helpless.

Yes, with guns.

And to answer your questions; Because in those scenarios everyone has guns.


Not true. In FACT most people in gun shops or gun shows do NOT have guns on their person. I know this from years of experience going to gun shows, and working in a gun shop.

In Michigan you're not allowed to carry a concealed pistol into a gun show.

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07-04-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 09:48 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Also ---

As far as "Laws changing behavior" --- why is it the US has the most draconian drug laws and the highest usage of "illegal" drugs???

How come those laws aren't "Changing behavior"????


They are changing behavior, they're just not deterring the specific behavior of drug use.

The War on Drugs has...

- Lead to the rise and abuse of the for-profit prison system

- Overburdened our justice system with processing non-violent offenders

- Has both encouraged and fueled the militarization of domestic police forces

- It's unequal enforcement has only further stratified our society, helping to further institutionalize discrimination and poverty among minority and lower class demographics

- It's been used as a political bargaining chip by the unscrupulous

- Mandatory sentencing has needlessly destroyed lives and wasted tax payer money incarcerating people for non-violent offenses

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07-04-2015, 10:30 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 10:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 09:48 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Also ---

As far as "Laws changing behavior" --- why is it the US has the most draconian drug laws and the highest usage of "illegal" drugs???

How come those laws aren't "Changing behavior"????


They are changing behavior, they're just not deterring the specific behavior of drug use.

The War on Drugs has...

- Lead to the rise and abuse of the for-profit prison system

- Overburdened our justice system with processing non-violent offenders

- Has both encouraged and fueled the militarization of domestic police forces

- It's unequal enforcement has only further stratified our society, helping to further institutionalize discrimination and poverty among minority and lower class demographics

- It's been used as a political bargaining chip by the unscrupulous

- Mandatory sentencing has needlessly destroyed lives and wasted tax payer money incarcerating people for non-violent offenses


You are correct.. on all points.


But I'm sure you understood that I meant "why haven't drug laws changed the behavior of drug users"...

They haven't.

Nor would changing gun laws affect the illegal use of guns.

....

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07-04-2015, 10:36 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 10:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You are correct.. on all points.


But I'm sure you understood that I meant "why haven't drug laws changed the behavior of drug users"...

They haven't.

Nor would changing gun laws affect the illegal use of guns.

....


You need a way to reduce the number of guns in circulation.

How do you go about doing that? I don't think there is a single, catch-all solution. You need to tackle both the supply, and the demand. I think that we'd be better off reducing all violent crime, including gun violence, by battling wealth inequality, poverty, and sub-par education. That doesn't negate that having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk for fatal firearm related accidents, a successful suicide, or domestic violence; but that's the risk you have to burden when you decide to have a firearm. That's not to say that we can't do things to also limit supply, like stop incentivising/subsidizing domestic arms manufacturers and having sensible regulations regarding what can and cannot be purchased, in addition to de-militarizing our own police.

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07-04-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
The problem with gun control laws - they only are followed by the law abiding -- the people who are not the problem.

"Gun Control Advocates" do not want to control guns. They want to abolish their ownership.

I have a plan for "gun control" that would do absolutely the most that can be done to prevent the illegal use of guns. See if you can come up with a better one.

1. Abolish all existing gun laws on the books.
2. Anyone can own any firearm they wish to own.
3. No registration of any firearm shall be required.
4. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be prohibited from owning, using, buying or selling any firearm or ammunition.
5. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be required to obtain state identification that clearly states "FIREARM OWNERSHIP PROHIBITED"
6. All firearm and ammo sales shall require a show of state identification. Failure to comply with this will be considered a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.
7. Selling a firearm or ammo to a person who's gun rights have been revoked shall be guilty of a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.

......

Real simple.

If you're a criminal - you can't own guns. If you sell one to a criminal, you're a criminal.


...

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07-04-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 10:36 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 10:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You are correct.. on all points.


But I'm sure you understood that I meant "why haven't drug laws changed the behavior of drug users"...

They haven't.

Nor would changing gun laws affect the illegal use of guns.

....


You need a way to reduce the number of guns in circulation.

How do you go about doing that? I don't think there is a single, catch-all solution. You need to tackle both the supply, and the demand. I think that we'd be better off reducing all violent crime, including gun violence, by battling wealth inequality, poverty, and sub-par education. That doesn't negate that having a gun in your home significantly increases your risk for fatal firearm related accidents, a successful suicide, or domestic violence; but that's the risk you have to burden when you decide to have a firearm. That's not to say that we can't do things to also limit supply, like stop incentivising/subsidizing domestic arms manufacturers and having sensible regulations regarding what can and cannot be purchased, in addition to de-militarizing our own police.

The number of guns is meaningless.

The number of criminals, whackos and crazies owning guns is the problem.

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08-04-2015, 12:49 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015 12:53 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 10:41 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The problem with gun control laws - they only are followed by the law abiding -- the people who are not the problem.

"Gun Control Advocates" do not want to control guns. They want to abolish their ownership.

I have a plan for "gun control" that would do absolutely the most that can be done to prevent the illegal use of guns. See if you can come up with a better one.

1. Abolish all existing gun laws on the books.
2. Anyone can own any firearm they wish to own.
3. No registration of any firearm shall be required.
4. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be prohibited from owning, using, buying or selling any firearm or ammunition.
5. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be required to obtain state identification that clearly states "FIREARM OWNERSHIP PROHIBITED"
6. All firearm and ammo sales shall require a show of state identification. Failure to comply with this will be considered a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.
7. Selling a firearm or ammo to a person who's gun rights have been revoked shall be guilty of a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.

......

Real simple.

If you're a criminal - you can't own guns. If you sell one to a criminal, you're a criminal.


...


If it's reasonable to register your vehicles, and register to vote, it's reasonable to register your firearms. Given the damage they can cause, I think it would be reasonable to insure them as well, much like a car, to at a minimum cover personal liability.


Your plan does nothing to prevent the mentally unfit from owning firearms. It also doesn't address simply 'giving' weapons and ammo to prohibited people. I'm also not comfortable with civilians owning military grade munitions, such as fully automatic belt-fed machineguns or grenade launchers; there has to be a restriction to what you can own, and what you need to do to own it.


No right, including the vaunted Freedom of Speech, is unlimited.

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08-04-2015, 12:52 AM (This post was last modified: 08-04-2015 12:57 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(07-04-2015 10:43 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The number of criminals, whackos and crazies owning guns is the problem.

Agreed. But if we start handing out machine-guns like candy, .22 pistols will certainly stop being the statistically most dangerous firearm.


(07-04-2015 10:43 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The number of guns is meaningless.

Which would sound a whole hell of a lot less full of shit if getting access to an illegal gun wasn't so easy because our country is already saturated with firearms.

But I guess pointing out that what we certainly don't need is more guns is just too eminently reasonable?

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08-04-2015, 06:47 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(08-04-2015 12:49 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 10:41 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The problem with gun control laws - they only are followed by the law abiding -- the people who are not the problem.

"Gun Control Advocates" do not want to control guns. They want to abolish their ownership.

I have a plan for "gun control" that would do absolutely the most that can be done to prevent the illegal use of guns. See if you can come up with a better one.

1. Abolish all existing gun laws on the books.
2. Anyone can own any firearm they wish to own.
3. No registration of any firearm shall be required.
4. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be prohibited from owning, using, buying or selling any firearm or ammunition.
5. Anyone who has their gun rights adjudicated by a court of law shall be required to obtain state identification that clearly states "FIREARM OWNERSHIP PROHIBITED"
6. All firearm and ammo sales shall require a show of state identification. Failure to comply with this will be considered a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.
7. Selling a firearm or ammo to a person who's gun rights have been revoked shall be guilty of a felony - punishable by 5 years in a state prison.

......

Real simple.

If you're a criminal - you can't own guns. If you sell one to a criminal, you're a criminal.


...


If it's reasonable to register your vehicles, and register to vote, it's reasonable to register your firearms. Given the damage they can cause, I think it would be reasonable to insure them as well, much like a car, to at a minimum cover personal liability.


Your plan does nothing to prevent the mentally unfit from owning firearms. It also doesn't address simply 'giving' weapons and ammo to prohibited people. I'm also not comfortable with civilians owning military grade munitions, such as fully automatic belt-fed machineguns or grenade launchers; there has to be a restriction to what you can own, and what you need to do to own it.


No right, including the vaunted Freedom of Speech, is unlimited.
The mental cases can be adjudicated as well as criminals.

Furthermore - in many states it is ALREADY legal to own machine guns, sub machine guns, and belt fed weaponry. Grenade launchers as well -- but not explosive or incinerary rounds. Statistics show that legally owned weapons of ALL types (including full auto) are far less likely to be used illegally than weapons that are illegally owned.

And "giving", "gifting" or whatever you'd like to call it - would be illegal as well.

I think that the line to draw - of what should be restricted from civilian ownership -- is those weapons that cannot be used safely. You can't really guarantee against the possibility of collateral damage when using grenades, bombs or other non-directional weaponry.

The law is - and should be -- you own the bullet. When it leaves your gun, you're responsible for it.

It's pretty easy to safely shoot semi and full auto weapons - safely - without destroying the neighborhood.

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08-04-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: 5 Stupid Things for April 6, 2015
(08-04-2015 12:52 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-04-2015 10:43 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The number of criminals, whackos and crazies owning guns is the problem.

Agreed. But if we start handing out machine-guns like candy, .22 pistols will certainly stop being the statistically most dangerous firearm.


(07-04-2015 10:43 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The number of guns is meaningless.

Which would sound a whole hell of a lot less full of shit if getting access to an illegal gun wasn't so easy because our country is already saturated with firearms.

But I guess pointing out that what we certainly don't need is more guns is just too eminently reasonable?

To paraphrase the Duchess of Winsor ---

You can't be too rich

too thin

or too heavily armed....

Big Grin

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