8 things you might not know about christ
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26-02-2014, 06:25 PM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2014 06:32 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
8 things you might not know about christ
So I was doing a drive by on yahoo yesterday, and they had a story labeled 8 things you might not know about the passion of christ. So i figured I'd do a little countering of the usual misinformation the creationists were shoveling onto the threads and posted this:

8 things you might not know about Christ.

1) Not one piece of contemporary, historical or physical evidence exists to support the story of Jesus of Nazareth.

2) The Romans fabricated the story of Jesus based on older myths of which Hercules, Mithra, Krishna, Attica, Horus and Osiris are just a few that have very similar stories to jesus, and predate him by hundreds of years...

3) According to Luke, The Census of Quirinius, upon official decree by Emperor Augustus, required all people register with their own towns. Supposedly Joseph and Mary traveled from Nazareth to Bethlehem to register. This places the birth of Jesus around the time of the census in 6/7, whereas both this Gospel and the Gospel of Matthew, which makes no mention of the census, indicate a birth in the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BCE, at least ten years earlier. In addition, no historical sources mention a census of the Roman world which would cover the entire population. Those of Augustus covered Roman citizens only, and it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes. (ref Census of Quirinius)

4) During the life of the mythical Jesus there occurred no record of him or any of his alleged miracles being performed before the masses. You would think such amazing feats would have been recorded somewhere by someone… A royal scribe perhaps, local historian, court recorder… But no. All stories of Jesus were written 50 to 350 years after his alleged execution.....by authors who never met the earthly jesus, and based their writings on the oral retelling, of the oral retelling, of the oral retelling of stories. Historically it was traditional to pass down stories, however when the end story is one of such a supernatural, extraordinary nature, one must discredit it as a parable.

5) The epistles are the go to excuse for creationists in a sad attempt to prove the existence of Jesus. The problem is all of the epistles were written long after his death by those born long after his death. None of them had met the earthly Jesus and again used hearsay or outright fabrication to create the writings. For example epistle of Jude.... Jude was an illiterate peasant who could hardly miraculously somehow right in high quality fluent Greek. This is the very definition of Pseudepigrapha; a book written in a biblical style and ascribed to an author who did not write it...otherwise known as a FORGERY.

6) The unknown authors of the epistles of Peter wrote long after the life of the traditional Peter. Moreover, Peter lived (if he ever lived at all) as an ignorant and illiterate peasant (even Acts 4:13 attests to this). In short, no one has any way of determining whether the epistles of Peter come from fraud, an author claiming himself to know what Peter said (hearsay), or from someone trying to further the aims of the Church.

7) All the non-Christian authors who mentioned Jesus were again born after the death of Jesus. For example, Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius were all born long after, thus more hearsay. Thus my statement that the only evidence of jesus, is complete, uncorroborated hearsay.

8) (KJV) Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. With all the literate people in the region and the world, isn't it odd there is not one word mentioned, recorded or inscribed on the entire earth going dark from 6 to 9 PM, the world shaking and buildings collapsing.... Not from the Egyptians which started building the great Pyramids hundreds of years prior to Jesus, and not from the Chinese who had an intricate language and were astute historians… Not… One… Word. I call BS.

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You can imagine this went over like a turd in the punch bowl at a wedding, but that is par for the course. Now I fully realize the highly educated and experienced members of this forum in both camps see nothing new that hasn't been debated from every possible angle, but I thought what the heck, may as well slap it up in the forums.

good times

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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26-02-2014, 08:03 PM
RE: 8 things you might not know about christ
I thought #2 was either highly contentious or flat-out proven wrong. I'm pretty sure I read a thread about that here within the first month of joining (so, back in October or November).

Edit: Ah, here it is.
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26-02-2014, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2014 08:30 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 8 things you might not know about christ
(26-02-2014 06:25 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  So I was doing a drive by on yahoo yesterday, and they had a story labeled 8 things you might not know about the passion of christ. So i figured I'd do a little countering of the usual misinformation the creationists were shoveling onto the threads and posted this:

8 things you might not know about Christ.

1) Not one piece of contemporary, historical or physical evidence exists to support the story of Jesus of Nazareth.

2) The Romans fabricated the story of Jesus based on older myths of which Hercules, Mithra, Krishna, Attica, Horus and Osiris are just a few that have very similar stories to jesus, and predate him by hundreds of years...

3) According to Luke, The Census of Quirinius, upon official decree by Emperor Augustus, required all people register with their own towns. Supposedly Joseph and Mary traveled from Nazareth to Bethlehem to register. This places the birth of Jesus around the time of the census in 6/7, whereas both this Gospel and the Gospel of Matthew, which makes no mention of the census, indicate a birth in the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BCE, at least ten years earlier. In addition, no historical sources mention a census of the Roman world which would cover the entire population. Those of Augustus covered Roman citizens only, and it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes. (ref Census of Quirinius)

4) During the life of the mythical Jesus there occurred no record of him or any of his alleged miracles being performed before the masses. You would think such amazing feats would have been recorded somewhere by someone… A royal scribe perhaps, local historian, court recorder… But no. All stories of Jesus were written 50 to 350 years after his alleged execution.....by authors who never met the earthly jesus, and based their writings on the oral retelling, of the oral retelling, of the oral retelling of stories. Historically it was traditional to pass down stories, however when the end story is one of such a supernatural, extraordinary nature, one must discredit it as a parable.

5) The epistles are the go to excuse for creationists in a sad attempt to prove the existence of Jesus. The problem is all of the epistles were written long after his death by those born long after his death. None of them had met the earthly Jesus and again used hearsay or outright fabrication to create the writings. For example epistle of Jude.... Jude was an illiterate peasant who could hardly miraculously somehow right in high quality fluent Greek. This is the very definition of Pseudepigrapha; a book written in a biblical style and ascribed to an author who did not write it...otherwise known as a FORGERY.

6) The unknown authors of the epistles of Peter wrote long after the life of the traditional Peter. Moreover, Peter lived (if he ever lived at all) as an ignorant and illiterate peasant (even Acts 4:13 attests to this). In short, no one has any way of determining whether the epistles of Peter come from fraud, an author claiming himself to know what Peter said (hearsay), or from someone trying to further the aims of the Church.

7) All the non-Christian authors who mentioned Jesus were again born after the death of Jesus. For example, Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus and Suetonius were all born long after, thus more hearsay. Thus my statement that the only evidence of jesus, is complete, uncorroborated hearsay.

8) (KJV) Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. With all the literate people in the region and the world, isn't it odd there is not one word mentioned, recorded or inscribed on the entire earth going dark from 6 to 9 PM, the world shaking and buildings collapsing.... Not from the Egyptians which started building the great Pyramids hundreds of years prior to Jesus, and not from the Chinese who had an intricate language and were astute historians… Not… One… Word. I call BS.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can imagine this went over like a turd in the punch bowl at a wedding, but that is par for the course. Now I fully realize the highly educated and experienced members of this forum in both camps see nothing new that hasn't been debated from every possible angle, but I thought what the heck, may as well slap it up in the forums.

good times

There are a few more.

9. The gospel of Matthew says that when Jebus rose, the temple curtain was spontaneously torn, and many others also rose and walked around Jerusalem, and graves were opened and rocks were split. If that sort of monumental (unexplained) "event" had actually happened to the temple curtain, it would have been mentioned by *someone* (such as by a Jew such as Philo), who talked about all sorts of less important mundane facts. If there really had been a zombie invasion by other dead people, someone would have mentioned it, or named ONE of them, or noted ONE empty grave, or pointed out ONE "split rock", and some Roman or Jew would have mentioned the many other zombies by name. and said something about what happened to them. Did they die again, or just go lay down in their graves ? There also would have been a search mounted for Jebus, if he actually was reported to be alive, after they had gone to all the trouble to find him dangerous, and hold a trial, and get rid of him. In Acts, when Peter is talking to the Jewish authorities, they have no clue what he is talking about when he accuses them of killing Jebus, and then eventually says "Well, it was your sins that did it".

10. Never once in Jewish history, was the Sanhedrin called into session on Passover weekend. If it had, it also would have been noted somewhere, and the reason for it discussed, by Jews or someone.

(There were many other "miracle workers" said to be running around at the time. It's not that the events were unusual. In fact they were VERY usual. Many of the other apocalyptic preachers of the day were also said to be doing those little parlor tricks.)

I also find it highly unusual that a bunch of hick fisherman dudes, who were basically uneducated peasants from the sticks of Galilee, who had never been further than a few miles from home, somehow suddenly transformed themselves into world traveling orators, organizers, and administrators, running all over the Mediterranean. Really ? I seriously doubt it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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27-02-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: 8 things you might not know about christ
Robby pants, ah yes i remember that thread now.

bucky, thanks for the additions Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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