9/11 Coincidence ?
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13-03-2011, 12:25 PM
 
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
The whole plane thing was about how the plane didn't make a plane shape in the pentagon. No really, you expect a plane to make a plane's profile in 5 feet of concrete? Let me tell you now, those wings are coming off.

Which begs the question why we would send a missile into the pentagon in the first place. Two planes into the world trade centers is enough. And had we sent a missile, it would've done more damage.

---

We're not skeptical of it because there's nothing to be skeptical about. Plane collides with building, building collapses as simulations show.
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13-03-2011, 01:11 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
(12-03-2011 05:02 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  1. Maybe it is possible that there was thermate (not thermite) was created from the collapse of the towers, this may have been caused by a reaction between any number of chemicals within the building and any of the chemicals in the plane, I'm not a chemist, so I can not say that there was no reaction at all to create thermate. That is the only part of the conspiracy which I see as plausible at all. I do not think it was intended however.

You don't even need thermate, bear in mind those 767's had about 10,000 gallons of fuel on board, that could be the equivalent of the supposed thermate.

(12-03-2011 05:02 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  2. I've seen videos with the planes in them (which I thought was strange considering it was 2001, who walks around with a video camera? New Yorkers apparently). I even saw the second plane as live footage, the whole school watched the news that day.

Its not that surprising that in a city like new york, people would have quick and easy access to their video cameras, even in 2001, and it is just plain obvious why they would be recording it after the first plane hit.

(12-03-2011 05:02 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  3. You really need to get away from these conspiracies, your logic is becoming more and more fallacious the more you try to defend them.

I agree...

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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13-03-2011, 01:38 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
Let me think about it now... Trust the 2 hour long clip with pure solid info, with the majority atheists on those video, professors, skeptics, engineers, demolition experts, police, fire fighters, locals in the video.

Or the minority atheists who doesn't believe in this.....

Well 1 thing is for sure, It was such a nice excuse to get into war with Iraq.


Here is all the text-based source that some people loved.
http://www.911truth.org/

thousands of professionals engineers, and architects you guys doubt.
http://ae911truth.org/

scientists
http://www.journalof911studies.com/

Firefighters
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/

Lawyers
http://l911t.com/

Scholars
http://stj911.org/

Researchers
http://www.historycommons.org/project.js...11_project

Medical Professionals
http://mp911truth.org/

and many more other professionals seeking the truth.


Yeah I will think I would rather trust all that info in the video, and all those professionals, and all those info on the site.

Thanks for the ratings, I might consider about leaving this site for good now. Calling me logical fallacies, no evidence, people...

If I didn't have logic, I would of failed my math and science course but I get A's in them. How wonderful, how a illogical person as me pass those course, I wonder why.

"don't jump to conclusions until your 99%"

"dreams are the best source of creativity" me
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13-03-2011, 04:19 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2011 04:27 PM by Laxion.)
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
People heard explosives near the base of the tower, it can't be possible that the fire from above could of trigger it.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

http://911sharethetruth.com/

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." – Teddy Roosevelt

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." – Teddy Roosevelt

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." – Mark Twain

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." – Mark Twain

"don't jump to conclusions until your 99%"

"dreams are the best source of creativity" me
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13-03-2011, 04:30 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
We are not the minority of the populace. Conspiracy theorists are a majority in conspiracy theory forums because they care. just like atheists are a majority in this forum, because it's an atheist forum. In most places atheists aren't a majority, because the world wide population leans more towards religion. Band wagoning is something you need to get out of your system. The more people who agree with something the more scrutiny it deserves. If something is seen as a fact make sure that it is a fact. Newton's law of gravity wasn't just accepted it was tested over and over again since he made his proof and finally found insufficient. When it was found insufficient people weren't overwhelmingly against newton's law of gravity most everyone believed it to be obviously true.

How are you not religious? Which religion were you introduced to when you grew up? How many people agreed with you when you questioned it? Overwhelmingly when questioning religion people meet more opposition than friendly comments. So if more people liking religion than not liking it means religion is right then go be religious because it's obvious they do.

I'm not actually telling you to be religious but I'm trying to give you this idea. In coming here you entered a forum that is not for conspiracy theorists, in other words a forum that does not hold your opinions. Intellectuals often do this, they go to places where their ideas aren't accepted and then through scrutiny gain more verification or learn that they were wrong.

Youtube is not just a bunch of conspiracy theorists, 9/11 happened in 2001, who is going to be searching for videos about it? People who lost people? Probably not it's been nearly 10 years why remind yourself? People who accept it as a terrorist attack? Probably not, their answer was given nearly 10 years ago. So that leaves people who do not believe that it was a terrorist attack. Yes there are many people who fall into this category, but at the same time 100,000 people isn't even 1 state in the US. The numbers on youtube are nowhere close to populace especially because they aren't just for one location. They are global. Try having 10,000,000,000 likes and then it'll mean something except that people can like something as many times as they want (throwing off the scale).

You can believe in conspiracy theories and you can come here (we have a conspiracy theory thread obviously). But, as Gaglamesh (a former conspiracy theorist) will tell you. There are better things to worry about than the man behind the curtain.

9/11 happened and is resolved in many peoples eyes bringing it up without serious proof is pointless as it just hurts people.

The Illuminati and other secret organizations may or may not exist but does it matter? We know the top 1% of the US screws the rest of the country for their benefit. No need for a curtain, rich people use poorer people.

Zeitgeist brings up many illogical claims for a logical and desired motive, as was stated by others though. No matter how good the motive sounds it doesn't matter if they aren't actively pursuing it. No matter how many people believe in Zeitgeist it has to do something for the world to matter. Until then you're agreeing with a motive that is being sat on.

We're giving you the attention we are because we want to discuss with you fully and get to where you're giving us arguments we can accept. We don't want you to be someone who relies on popularity or that it sounds good.I haven't made many actual responses to your claims because to me conspiracy theories are a waste of energy.

Math is not logic
Math problem
y=3 x=6
Y+Y=X
Logic Problem (an overly simplistic one)
All humans are essentially good. Lilith is a human. So that means Lilith is essentially good.
Logic is determining whether this reasoning is suffice. Predicate and propositional logic determine it through assigning symbols to words. Most philosophers after Aristotle have used predicate and propositional logic in editing their own theories because this is a simple way to determine the logic behind a reason.
Human (will be known as M), Good (will be known as G), Lilith (will be known as L)
Every M is G (reason: Every human is good)
L is M (reason: Lilith is human)
_____ (therefore)
L is G (Conclusion: Lilith is good)
To verify that this is not true you simply replace L with say Hitler. In making it a problem that you can plug things into you view whether the reasoning (original statement) is logical (can be correctly applied in all forms of the statement) or not.

We aren't wanting you to leave we're wanting you to learn. You're free to go if you like, but while here we will continue debating and hoping that you grasp what we are saying. The rating system is in aspiration a way to state which people should be more readily believed than others. That of course can be easily ruined by people using + and - to mean other things, but it's what I base it as normally.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-03-2011, 04:43 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
(13-03-2011 09:45 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  What I don't get about that whole "real name is Barry" thing, is if his name is Barry... why the hell would he CHOOSE to go with Barack Hussein Obama? It's like a guy named John Richardson opting to go with Muhammad Satan Deathtoamerica Jr.

Or like a guy named Cassius Marcellus Clay changing his name to Mohamed Ali. It's just never going to happen!

Oh ... wait a minute ....

Anyway, getting back to the original point:

So, one of my son's is sick so my wife stayed home wit him and I went and hung out with my other son, who is 9 and soon to be 10. I got to thinking about this thread a little and realized something: Laxion is a child, not much older then my son. Being a teenager is tough. You generally think you know far more than you do, what you do actually know you have no experience to apply and no context to judge it with. That is the recipe for being a combination of naive, gullible and idealistic. And, I think it's a common trait amongst children in their teens. So, for that reason I think we should probably give Laxion a break.

What really concerns me, though, is the adults who perpetuate these fallacies. And, the internet makes it much easier to spread lies and conspiracies because no one knows who you are or what you're actual agenda is. But, I think you can basically put all these "truthers" into one of two categories: they are either morons or con men.

There are many types of morons: some are genuinely stupid, but many are religious fanatics, anti government fanatics, just basic paranoid fanatics, and probably a few categories I've missed. There are many types of con men too but I think for this purpose you can really just focus on the opportunists. And, there are two real types of those: financial opportunists and political opportunists. I have no idea who is behind this truther movement but I supsect it's a combination of all these groups.

Laxion - being young is an excuse for some things but there is no excuse for not using your head. The population of people who live on the island of Manhattan is over 1.5 million. The total number of people working in Manhattan on a Tuesday in September after the vacation season is over and when school has started again (in fact 9/11 was the first day of school in NYC that year) is probably closer to 8 million people. And, that does not count the roughly million or so people that live and work across the river in New Jersey who can look right into lower Manhattan from their offices. The number of people who watched that 2nd plane fly right into the Tower has to be, at minimum, at a hundred thousand people.

The first tower was hit, it was burning, people who worked in that building that had not yet arrived at work could not get to their office, nor could people running late at any of the surrounding buildings in the WTC complex (this is how my bro-in-law came to be outside). That day 3 things happened that made people run late: it was the first day of school, it was an election day (for local elections) and the local football team, the Giants, were on Monday Night and the game ended around midnight so people who stayed up to watch it (again, my bro-in-law), were running late that morning. There were, easily, 100,000 on the ground watching that first tower when the 2nd plane showed up. Ignoring all the other ridiculous aspects to this "theory" (like how did the explosives get planted and no one saw a thing???), how to you bribe and coerce a minimum of 100,000 people who were basically running for their lives after the 2nd explosion.

The entire idea is just preposterous.

Oh, and you may want to learn some history: we did not go to Iraq because of 9/11 (at least that what not the reason given by Bush, although I'm sure it was a motivation for him). If we were going to blow up our own building to justify a war in Iraq, doesn't it stand to reason that we would have, you know, actually used that as a reason and done a better job fabricating the link between Saddam and the attack?

I really can't believe there are people who believe this crap. It really all boils down to morons and opportunists.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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13-03-2011, 05:18 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
For the most part, I believe we are giving Laxion slack. Most of the responses are either quick rebuttals or discussions of proper techniques he could use to help verify things. Your 10 year old son is not every 10 year old. Some have experienced more than many 50 year olds. Age is an excuse in some ways, but the compromise to that is that when people discuss something with a younger person that they expect not to understand something, they explain it rather than considering it a matter of fact. Most of the more heated comments in Laxions threads are people discussing between each other, or like in this thread people who find this to be a sensitive topic. He'll learn one way or another that certain topics are sensitive.

The hope though is that at some point in reading responses to his claims he sees something that helps him understand that he's not really giving us due respect in explanations of his theories. He is not presenting us with a teenage argument, it just seems to most as more understandable when given by a teenager. This argument is very much an adult one, because many people never really learn the difference between sounding nice and being factual. Anyone aggravated at him is also aggravated that this is a common misconception with a lot of people. We are trying to be his peers and as peers we seek to inform him of what we feel he lacks.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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13-03-2011, 06:55 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
(13-03-2011 04:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  What really concerns me, though, is the adults who perpetuate these fallacies.

Exactly, I think thats the point about this. I does not matter if he's a child, as you said, being young is not an excuse for not using your head in a rational way.

(13-03-2011 04:43 PM)BnW Wrote:  I really can't believe there are people who believe this crap. It really all boils down to morons and opportunists.

You said it; Oportunists, What really bothers me is the fact that this kind of people make profit from other people's tragedy, they write "best-seller" books and dont give a sh*t about the people who lost loved ones.

Like I said on the other thread; they are just nutf*cks who survive thanks to the gullible, dumb-downed masses of slobs. They just make money thanks to the people who are dumb enough to believe them, just like religion, and they forget about the people who really need help. Peace.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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13-03-2011, 07:07 PM
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
Quote:You don't even need thermate, bear in mind those 767's had about 10,000 gallons of fuel on board, that could be the equivalent of the supposed thermate.

I know you wouldn't need thermate, I'm just suggesting that it is actually plausible without any sort of bullshit going on.
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13-03-2011, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2011 08:59 PM by Laxion.)
RE: 9/11 Coincidence ?
It's common sense to trusts the professionals more than you guys to me, unless you guys happen to be a professional. Smile

It's just like trusting a surgeon to do surgery rather some stranger with no certificate of being a surgeon. You guys are the strangers.

I don't really buy into Illuminati, I just know they are very rich people, with money comes power. I just don't get there numerology, and why they are doing satanic things to displease god. Makes no sense at all, It just feels like they want to keep people delusional, to make them believe in god.

Math does teaches some depth of logic.

Thermate was found at 9/11 by the way, but the authority rejects it.

Really another reason they war iraq ? tell me Big Grin


The religion I was brought up was Christianity when I was young. I didn't question it, or anything. They just taught us about love, happiness, never brought up hell. It was such a nice community, I guess I would called it conforming to their beliefs and stuff. They told us so many stories about god doing miracles, and those who have faith in them, will have good things happen to them. Well, I was pretty dumb in the past, with my usually straight C's throughout elementary. I haded too much faith into god. I was really interested in science, but then religion is what made me worry, I thought to myself it can go along nicely with each other, and I kinda pick religion over it. For example, thanking god for healing me, rather the medicine.

Then in Jr.High school, I started going on youtube, and I recently stumbled on atheists video refuting the bible, I was getting a bit troubled by it, and made excuses to myself to feel happy, because I was scared about dying with no eternal life. Then I soon became a agnostic about it, now a atheist. I got angry for being such an idiot. In middle school is when I greatly improved, getting A's now usually, no more C's. It's was probably because I thought praying would help me get smarter.

and now...
I love intelligence, and knowing things so much, I began reading more sciences lately on the web. Watching Discovery world hd, and national geograpic, wished I have science channel, animal planet, and bbc. At least I can watch them on the internet. I don't really play any downloaded games, or console. Rather internet games. I'm not really that addictive to games a lot.


bet you guys going to say, I am such a idiot once again, it's okay I love you haters. Rate me down, I will rate you up. I also get the feeling some of you feel bad getting a rating from me after you stabbed me. But's that's okay, because I now think positively about getting down rating, it sure does make me stand out from everyone. Being unique is nice, so I encourage everyone to down rate me. Being positive is nice. Loving your enemies will bring peace Big Grin

I was a bit sad/mad at first about being accused and having opinions on me, ratings on me bad. But now, if you think about it the other way, It's a way for me to attract attention, be unique, and be well known among you guys, positive thinking Big Grin

I don't really type out long things, I usually type out the keywords, summarize things, getting to the point. Basically, I'm not really descriptive.

Love you all.

"don't jump to conclusions until your 99%"

"dreams are the best source of creativity" me
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