9 Dead in SC church shooting
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19-06-2015, 05:20 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(19-06-2015 12:00 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Oh give me a break. You seem ashamed.

In Australia we had the Port Arthur massacre. Guns were banned. Not one mass shooting since.



Prior to 1968 -- it was completely legal to buy full automatic weapons in the USA.

In the early 1960's dad bought a Thompson (we had a shitload of 45acp ammo to get rid of) at the same local hardware store he bought 2 cases of dynamite, fuse and blasting caps for clearing stumps.

We had friends over several times to make some noise --- big fun on the 4th of July (our Independence Day)....

Lots of people bought full auto -- just for the sheer fun of it... Most didn't get shot that much - because it simply gets too damned expensive.

It was easier and cheaper just to go buy some (now banned) heavy duty fireworks and blow some stuff up for the fun of it.

Guess what???

With all those full-autos running around -- and all the explosives you could afford to buy ---- there wasn't the mayhem that the anti-gun people today expect with lots of weapons and explosives at hand.

In fact --- guns WERE everywhere. My dad went to a one room schoolhouse a 1/2 mile up the road -- and EVERY boy in that school brought a slingshot and a knife to school.... (dad claims they'd be out of uniform to not have them) --- and the teenage boys would bring LOADED RIFLES into the classroom to go hunting after school.

There was NEVER an incident of any kind.

What changed?????

People.


It's not a gun problem, it's not an explosive problem. It never has been - and it never will be....

It's fucked up, rat-ass crazy people.

Figure out how to control them -- not the guns.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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19-06-2015, 06:11 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
I agree mate. But the access to guns to crazy sods does not help.

I am all for guns, provided they are needed. I am an Australian who grew up in the bush. Mate, we had guns. Shooting roos and foxes was commonplace. Everyday I went shooting as a 8 year old. Every day.

I get it.

However it seems to me there is an unhealthy obsession with firearms and the power it gives weak individuals in America. As a result mass killings are seen often on the news.

I liken it to places like Mogadishu. America's gun control is out of control. In fact there is no control at all. What does the future hold for such a nation? I hate to think.

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Banjo.
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19-06-2015, 07:00 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Banjo my sentiments exactly mate great post thumbs up
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19-06-2015, 08:25 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(18-06-2015 04:36 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(18-06-2015 04:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm not a gun nut by any means, but you have to consider that when the American Constitution was written:

(1) They had just recently fought and won a war for their independence, and no way could they have done that if the people didn't own guns;

(2) Because of #1, they were understandably wary of potentially oppressive governments and the potential need to fight another such war;

(3) A significant portion of the population needed to hunt to eat, and/or needed a way to protect their livestock (and themselves) from predators.

It could be argued that none of these apply today, but it was no constitutional error of judgment in the 18th century -- it was an absolute necessity.
Number 2 is a lost cause. The last military budget was what last year? $700 billion?

Number 3 applies to a tiny population.

It seems like a sensible thing to at the very least confirm that one is not selling a gun to lunatic. But who says the sensible thing is the way of America?

The problem I have with the gun culture. It creates an atmosphere that favors escalation over deescalation.

I don't disagree with you. But I don't advocate banning guns, either, and this tends to be an all-or-nothing issue with some people. I'm trying to stay out of the shitstorm.
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19-06-2015, 08:54 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(19-06-2015 05:20 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(19-06-2015 12:00 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Oh give me a break. You seem ashamed.

In Australia we had the Port Arthur massacre. Guns were banned. Not one mass shooting since.



Prior to 1968 -- it was completely legal to buy full automatic weapons in the USA.

In the early 1960's dad bought a Thompson (we had a shitload of 45acp ammo to get rid of) at the same local hardware store he bought 2 cases of dynamite, fuse and blasting caps for clearing stumps.

We had friends over several times to make some noise --- big fun on the 4th of July (our Independence Day)....

Lots of people bought full auto -- just for the sheer fun of it... Most didn't get shot that much - because it simply gets too damned expensive.

It was easier and cheaper just to go buy some (now banned) heavy duty fireworks and blow some stuff up for the fun of it.

Guess what???

With all those full-autos running around -- and all the explosives you could afford to buy ---- there wasn't the mayhem that the anti-gun people today expect with lots of weapons and explosives at hand.

In fact --- guns WERE everywhere. My dad went to a one room schoolhouse a 1/2 mile up the road -- and EVERY boy in that school brought a slingshot and a knife to school.... (dad claims they'd be out of uniform to not have them) --- and the teenage boys would bring LOADED RIFLES into the classroom to go hunting after school.

There was NEVER an incident of any kind.

What changed?????

People.


It's not a gun problem, it's not an explosive problem. It never has been - and it never will be....

It's fucked up, rat-ass crazy people.

Figure out how to control them -- not the guns.

Guns are tools. You can use them to do bad things, good things, pointless things and very stupid things. It's just a better tool for bad and stupid things than the rest.

You should also add for the sake of honesty the following group of people who uses firearms in a bad or stupid fashion: imprudent people; depressive, anxious, bipolar, burnt-out people; desperate people; inattentive people; scared people; drunk or high people; unexperienced people; children; simple people. That's a lot of people and the most bothering is that anybody who isn't in one of those category can fall into one at some point very quickly and without warning.

The problem with rat-ass crazy people is that by nature they are kind of uncontrollable. People are very hard to control. Object are a lot easier. Yes, people are at the heart of the problem most of the time. A greater control of firearms isn't going to solve all the issues, but will certainly help a bit and is a more realistic solution, even if only partial, than asking for an almost utopic legislation that would make every gun owner mentally stable (which is impossible), obedient of the law (which is also impossible), always prudent with firearms (possible, but very hard) and with very obedient and prudent kids (that's also very unlikely).

It kind of suck, but there is a lot of good thing in society that we can't do or have because we can't handle them properly. Just my two cents on the subject.
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19-06-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Jon Stewart on the shooting

孤独 - The Out Crowd
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19-06-2015, 09:59 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
But ---

where did the rat ass crazy bastards come from????

I'm gonna have to say we manufactured them.

......

How???

I've talked about this to older people (now in their 80's and 90's) - and I think they've got a point -----

They grew up in a time when violence was real -- right in your face -- close up - and you saw firsthand the repercussions of violence.

Guys went off to war - and had to deal with it on a first hand basis.......

Then - Viet Nam ---- now kids got to see the violence ---- but not too much ya know ---- they had ground rules of what they could show on TV --- so you saw machine guns firing - bombs exploding -- and occasionally a building or a treeline go up in flames ---- but you never saw a guy with his intestines puddled in his lap, limbs torn off, or people burned to a crisp. You had to be there, in person.

We developed an appetite for violence.

We started watching movies that were more and more violent, more and more graphic.

And we liked it.

Then, we started getting video games --- like a movie --- but YOU are the director --- and you get to kill at your leisure.....

Now --- this isn't to say that it turned us all into raving maniacs --- that's obviously not the case.....


But

Some of us did.

And while I hear so many people saying restricting access to guns -- here in the US - our 2nd Amendment rights ----- I don't hear anyone saying that we should be restricting access to violence. (our 1st Amendment rights) -----

BUT

We don't seem to have any problem with restricting our First Amendment rights when it comes to sex.

It's FINE to show some guy with his head blown off.... But, not so much if the other head is getting blown.....


Go figure...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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19-06-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
But we are not the only country exposed to this type of violence. Canada, Australia and western Europe are all watching the same violent movies and playing the same violent video games. And, they are not having nearly the same level of gun violence.

Given the statistics and comparisons, it is nearly impossible to argue the difference is not in the availability of firearms.

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19-06-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(19-06-2015 10:22 AM)BnW Wrote:  But we are not the only country exposed to this type of violence. Canada, Australia and western Europe are all watching the same violent movies and playing the same violent video games. And, they are not having nearly the same level of gun violence.

Given the statistics and comparisons, it is nearly impossible to argue the difference is not in the availability of firearms.

Yes, guns are a tool that make killing easier. This will of course give an increased ability to persons that want to kill or injure another person, both justifiable and unjustifiable.

The issue lies with the person that is in charge of the firearm, not the firearm itself.
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19-06-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(19-06-2015 10:22 AM)BnW Wrote:  But we are not the only country exposed to this type of violence. Canada, Australia and western Europe are all watching the same violent movies and playing the same violent video games. And, they are not having nearly the same level of gun violence.

Given the statistics and comparisons, it is nearly impossible to argue the difference is not in the availability of firearms.

So how do you account the rise in firearm incidents -- when you realize that PER CAPITA -- there are now less fully automatic weapons in circulation that before the 1960's???? The anti gun people sure paint them as the big scary problem. (when in fact full automatics are exceedingly rarely used in crime).

I'm willing to bet that there's less guns per capita in almost all categories of guns.

That's just opinion of course --- it's virtually impossible to get accurate data - from either the pro-gun or anti-gun camps -- as they're both magicians at stroking the data and coming up with the preferred answer....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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