9 Dead in SC church shooting
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21-06-2015, 10:49 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 07:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 03:26 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  I have a hard time with an expressed "opinion" being incorrect here.

I think we can discuss this without a "you're wrong shut up" attitude.

Your opinion is ill-informed. You also made a claim that the guns were designed to create as much carnage as possible. That is factually incorrect.

Did you even read the prior post?

My opinion part is that I don't think the guns serve much of a purpose.

And yes I've read all the posts, don't think I missed any. If you mean about the guns being "sport" guns, I think that's just silly. They are military styled firearms.
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21-06-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
I'll be the first to admit that I'm in favor certain aspects of gun control for various reasons. However, I also think it's important to recognize that this is only a very small part of a solution to this issue. It's so small, in fact, that if the rest of the issue is addressed properly, gun control in any form might not be necessary at all. What's really important is figuring out why people reach the state of mind to kill masses of people in the first place and then figuring out how to prevent that. If you take away the guns, those people will still have the same state of mind and they'll just use bombs or something else instead. Gun control won't solve this issue and, as long as we stay focused on the guns, we're wasting time figuring out the real solution.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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21-06-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Guns were invented for war, so yes, they were originally made to kill but now and days that's different, guns are tools made for many different purposes like sport, personal defense, film making, policing (IE. Non-Lethal guns that shoot rubber bullets) ect. some similarities it shares with Swords. What they are made for and how they are used doesn't matter because they cannot work on their own. It's who uses them that's the issue so as Impulse pointed out, taking away the weapons or even restricting them will not stop violence as long as we continue to let people with serious issues access to any type of object that can harm people. Restricting them may help lower the violence but unless we get rid of everything and live in an empty world, there will always be violence whether it be a gun, knife, vehicle etc. Also yes, guns can kill more easier but so can bombs, Boston Bombings. Vehicles can kill many people too. 9/11. We won't fix the issue by worrying about what was used to kill people, we will make more progress by worrying about why these people decided to kill.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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21-06-2015, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2015 01:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
This reminded me of Banjo. Big Grin




#sigh
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21-06-2015, 01:52 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  What's really important is figuring out why people reach the state of mind to kill masses of people in the first place and then figuring out how to prevent that.
Some people steal and perform muggings etc because they are poor and desperate.
Some people because they are unhappy with the system. Some people because they feel jealous that others have flash stuff and they don't.
Some people, because they think stealing is easier than working.
Some people, because they belong to gangs or have friends or siblings that lead them down that path.

Some people rape because... (Well, I don't know the motivator behind that, but some people do this for various reasons).

Some people kill their families because they are depressed, because they are angry, because they snap.

Some people go killing random people because of strong moral ethics and idealism leads them down a non compromise path where they would rather sacrifice themselves for this idealistic cause.

Allowing these people easy access to guns, helps them achieve what they want to do. Once they have the guns, a way to stop these things from happening would be to solve the problem of poverty, of inequality, of idealism, of mental health issues, of high sex drive, to have a political system and political leader that everyone is happy with...

or, you could seek to support gun control.
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21-06-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
I'm against gun ownership, but at a push I can understand someone wanting one for sport/hunting and maybe owning a handgun in case of home invasion. What I don't understand is the need for your average joe to own an AR15 with a 100 round mag and a laser scope. Just who do you think is going to invade your home? "Ze Germans"?

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too"? - Douglas Adams Bechased
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21-06-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 01:52 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 11:26 AM)Impulse Wrote:  What's really important is figuring out why people reach the state of mind to kill masses of people in the first place and then figuring out how to prevent that.
Some people steal and perform muggings etc because they are poor and desperate.
Some people because they are unhappy with the system. Some people because they feel jealous that others have flash stuff and they don't.
Some people, because they think stealing is easier than working.
Some people, because they belong to gangs or have friends or siblings that lead them down that path.

Some people rape because... (Well, I don't know the motivator behind that, but some people do this for various reasons).

Some people kill their families because they are depressed, because they are angry, because they snap.

Some people go killing random people because of strong moral ethics and idealism leads them down a non compromise path where they would rather sacrifice themselves for this idealistic cause.

Allowing these people easy access to guns, helps them achieve what they want to do. Once they have the guns, a way to stop these things from happening would be to solve the problem of poverty, of inequality, of idealism, of mental health issues, of high sex drive, to have a political system and political leader that everyone is happy with...

or, you could seek to support gun control.

Gun control won't stop that person from being depressed and just make them find another way to kill.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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21-06-2015, 02:04 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
^ The counter argument is clear though - sure, allowing *those* people easy access to guns is bad news, but if I encounter one of those people I want to have a gun myself.

I think... to me that indicates a lack of trust in government systems to catch criminals, possibly well justified.

Secondly it indicates to me a certain amount of hubris - a certainty that as long as *I* have a gun i have a good chance to come out ahead in a fight. I kinda understand that viewpoint though. It's the same reason I prefer to be in control of a car than to be a passenger, despite that I'm not a great driver myself. If something happens I back myself to either extricate myself from the situation or to die knowing I did my best. Being *not* in control means I am at the mercy of whatever lunatic is driving, I don't even have the *option* to swing the wheel.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-06-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 12:16 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Guns were invented for war, so yes, they were originally made to kill but now and days that's different, guns are tools made for many different purposes like sport, personal defense, film making, policing (IE. Non-Lethal guns that shoot rubber bullets) ect. some similarities it shares with Swords. What they are made for and how they are used doesn't matter because they cannot work on their own. It's who uses them that's the issue so as Impulse pointed out, taking away the weapons or even restricting them will not stop violence as long as we continue to let people with serious issues access to any type of object that can harm people. Restricting them may help lower the violence but unless we get rid of everything and live in an empty world, there will always be violence whether it be a gun, knife, vehicle etc. Also yes, guns can kill more easier but so can bombs, Boston Bombings. Vehicles can kill many people too. 9/11. We won't fix the issue by worrying about what was used to kill people, we will make more progress by worrying about why these people decided to kill.
How many more shootings than bombings in the USA ? defence involves killing as obviously guns are not a deterrent in the USA and I cannot believe you used the vehicle argument I despair of my fellow atheists using cognitive dissonance circular reasoning and the obvious worship of firearms all things we criticize the religious for. You are nice people but I swear to the god I don't believe in you are a menace and a danger to yourselves. I hope one day you learn to value each other at least as much as your firearms I'm done here its too excruciating following this thread
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21-06-2015, 02:20 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2015 02:29 PM by Chas.)
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 10:49 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 07:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your opinion is ill-informed. You also made a claim that the guns were designed to create as much carnage as possible. That is factually incorrect.

Did you even read the prior post?

My opinion part is that I don't think the guns serve much of a purpose.

And yes I've read all the posts, don't think I missed any. If you mean about the guns being "sport" guns, I think that's just silly. They are military styled firearms.

They are good hunting rifles. Your problem is they they resemble a military weapon?

Nearly all sporting arms are derived from military designs.

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