9 Dead in SC church shooting
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21-06-2015, 06:24 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
My dad killed his boar just fine with a .30-06
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21-06-2015, 06:26 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2015 07:10 PM by BnW.)
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Have not been able to keep up with this thread. You all are just too prolific. And, I'm not sure I've even read everything since I last had a chance to read it. But, based on what I see, I just wanted to make 3 quick points:

1. First, this topic seems to take on a personal element and people seem to be equating arguments with attacks on them personally. I hope no one took any of my earlier comments that way because nothing I wrote was meant as an attack on anyone.

2. I noticed a bunch of posts along the lines of "the issue isn't guns, it's mental health" or something similar. I disagree. I think mental health is a giant red herring here. There is no indication that the shooter in SC has any mental health issues (aside from the obvious comment that sane people don't do these things). The likelihood that some change in how we manage mental health would have prevented this has to be about nil. In fact, in most of these cases there was almost no prior warning that there was an issue with the person. That is clearly not true in all cases. With the Sandy Hook massacre the killer had some well documented problems. But, he was actually getting help AND the guns he used were not his, they were his mother's. But, the point is, the idea that a focus on mental health is going to slow down the body count seem extremely unlikely. At minimum, I've seen no actual evidence or study to support that supposition.

3. This idea that if guns were banned or limited we would have those roving bands of criminals who would take over society is a nihilistic fantasy that has no basis in reality. Canada, Australia and most of western Europe all have some serious limits on gun ownership and the scenario we keep hearing about has not played out anywhere. The simple fact is those countries have far fewer gun deaths than the US does, and it's not by a small % either. The differences are staggering in most cases. The argument that we are safer with all those guns is demonstrably bullshit. We don't have them because we need them. We have them because we want them, period. But, they are providing no net benefit to society.

Ultimately, this is all academic. No serious gun control or ban is going to pass outside of a couple of states in the northeast and maybe the west coast. There is going to be no federal intervention. It's not going to happen. If meaningful change couldn't be accomplished after Sandy Hook, there is no chance it's going to happen after this last shooting. The only impact this last one could possible have is maybe it will force the issue for the state legislator of South Carolina to finally acknowledge that a racist symbol endorsed by the state and flying on state property is an embarrassment and finally remove it. A symbolic gesture at best. And, if I was a betting man, I would not bet on even that happening because I honestly don't think it's going to.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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21-06-2015, 06:26 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 06:24 PM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  My dad killed his boar just fine with a .30-06

Which has what to do with it? Consider

And the .30-06 is far deadlier than the .223 cartridge.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-06-2015, 06:36 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 05:04 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Why the fuck oh why would you object to a fucking smart gun which can only be fired by the owner? And yet the NRA and its stooges almost forced this gun dealer in Maryland out of business for even contemplating it. All I can think is they have no rational argument against it so the Luddites think they can pick the technologists off one at a time. They are wrong. Luddites always are.

“It makes no sense to me why gun rights people would say certain types of guns shouldn’t be purchased,” Teret said.

Threats against Maryland gun dealer raise doubts about future of smart guns

I personally think that this is the only way to find compromise between both sides of the argument ... smart guns and better background procedures.
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21-06-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 05:36 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Yo know it's strange the cultural differences. Here in large parts (if not all) of the UK, if someone mentioned that they owned a handgun, they would be considered odd and someone not to be trusted. They would certainly be given a wide berth. Rational or not, it's true. We think owning a handgun is something only criminals do, and even that seems to be rare. Don't know why it's so different over in the US.
In NZ, we would think it very strange for a person to own a gun for protection from other people.
Handguns aren't very common here. In lieu of that I suppose a person could carry a knife.
But....
We would also find that pretty odd (and scary) if a person let it be known they carry a knife for protection. We would wonder why this person thinks they are in danger of a confrontation. Do they deal with dodgy people? Are they aggressive?

Now if a person said they needed a weapon to protect themself from government or police, now that is a whole 'nother level of aggressive crazy.

That's why it is so intriguing to me to talk to some USA people who are seemingly down to earth but then say all these "crazy" things related to guns.
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21-06-2015, 08:33 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Thumpalumpacus ' Wrote:  I personally think that this is the only way to find compromise between both sides of the argument ... smart guns and better background procedures.

Smart Guns can go kiss my butt. There is a reason why the police and federal law enforcement (secret sevice) are given exemptions even when the smart guns were created, in part, for them.

If the police and army does not trust them, I sure as hell will not.

P.S. They are now researching tech to block a smart gun from firing to have gun free zones. Given how easy people "jailbreak" phones and how common this tech could get, I will NEVER rely on a smart gun.
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21-06-2015, 08:59 PM (This post was last modified: 21-06-2015 09:05 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 08:33 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  
Thumpalumpacus ' Wrote:  I personally think that this is the only way to find compromise between both sides of the argument ... smart guns and better background procedures.

Smart Guns can go kiss my butt. There is a reason why the police and federal law enforcement (secret sevice) are given exemptions even when the smart guns were created, in part, for them.

If the police and army does not trust them, I sure as hell will not.

P.S. They are now researching tech to block a smart gun from firing to have gun free zones. Given how easy people "jailbreak" phones and how common this tech could get, I will NEVER rely on a smart gun.

Yeah, like you're gonna have a choice and shit. Technology is unstoppable. Your objections don't mean dick given that you are technically incapable of changing shit.

#sigh
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21-06-2015, 09:06 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 08:00 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 05:36 PM)joben1 Wrote:  Yo know it's strange the cultural differences. Here in large parts (if not all) of the UK, if someone mentioned that they owned a handgun, they would be considered odd and someone not to be trusted. They would certainly be given a wide berth. Rational or not, it's true. We think owning a handgun is something only criminals do, and even that seems to be rare. Don't know why it's so different over in the US.
In NZ, we would think it very strange for a person to own a gun for protection from other people.
Handguns aren't very common here. In lieu of that I suppose a person could carry a knife.
But....
We would also find that pretty odd (and scary) if a person let it be known they carry a knife for protection. We would wonder why this person thinks they are in danger of a confrontation. Do they deal with dodgy people? Are they aggressive?

Now if a person said they needed a weapon to protect themself from government or police, now that is a whole 'nother level of aggressive crazy.

That's why it is so intriguing to me to talk to some USA people who are seemingly down to earth but then say all these "crazy" things related to guns.

I'm sure I wouldn't carry a weapon in NZ, either. It's a very different society - much safer.

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21-06-2015, 09:08 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 08:33 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  Smart Guns can go kiss my butt. There is a reason why the police and federal law enforcement (secret sevice) are given exemptions even when the smart guns were created, in part, for them.

If the police and army does not trust them, I sure as hell will not.

P.S. They are now researching tech to block a smart gun from firing to have gun free zones. Given how easy people "jailbreak" phones and how common this tech could get, I will NEVER rely on a smart gun.

Yeah, like you're gonna have a choice and shit. Technology is unstoppable. Your objections don't mean dick given that you are technically incapable of changing shit.

Well, he could just pick up one of those 300,000,000+ low-tech ones that are scattered about.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-06-2015, 09:21 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(21-06-2015 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-06-2015 08:33 PM)Gatheist Wrote:  Smart Guns can go kiss my butt. There is a reason why the police and federal law enforcement (secret sevice) are given exemptions even when the smart guns were created, in part, for them.

If the police and army does not trust them, I sure as hell will not.

P.S. They are now researching tech to block a smart gun from firing to have gun free zones. Given how easy people "jailbreak" phones and how common this tech could get, I will NEVER rely on a smart gun.

Yeah, like you're gonna have a choice and shit. Technology is unstoppable. Your objections don't mean dick given that you are technically incapable of changing shit.

Like beta max or DVD HD? BTW... how did you like the taste of new coke?
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