9 Dead in SC church shooting
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22-06-2015, 04:02 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 02:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That is mostly a list of police officers.

Not #1, #2, #4, #6, #8 - so not mostly a list of police officers.

Ok 1 Army reservist (meaning a trained professional not an average citizen)

2 guy shows up 20 mins later and has a shotgun, talks the kid down.

3 Cop

4 Cop

5 Cop

6 Guy had already unloaded his clip and was attempting to reload

7 Cop

8 Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded in Clackamas County, Oregon, when Jacob Roberts opened fire in a local shopping mall. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on Roberts, who then retreated. Meli did not fire his weapon, for fear of striking bystanders.

So he did fuck all?

9 Cops

ok so 5 cops and an Army reservist still half cops and mostly trained professionals thus rendering the average citizen criteria moot.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-06-2015, 04:06 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Use Google -- there's thousands of these things that have happened.... But, the anti-gun people pretend it NEVER happens...

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

Full report: Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use - An Analysis of Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Crime Victimization Survey Data

That's criminals killed, not crimes stopped.

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22-06-2015, 04:07 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Use Google -- there's thousands of these things that have happened.... But, the anti-gun people pretend it NEVER happens...

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

Full report: Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use - An Analysis of Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Crime Victimization Survey Data

Prevalence of weapons increases the risk of either impulsive use or accidental harm. Both of which occur at a far, far greater rate than any purported deterrent or defensive effect. Not that facts are particularly troublesome for the sufficiently ideologically motivated.

A sane response consists of established public policy goals, and weighing the pros and cons of strategies designed to meet those goals.

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22-06-2015, 04:20 PM
9 Dead in SC church shooting
The interesting part about the SC shooting, and those who use it to favor gun laws, is that none of the ones being proposed would have prevented this incident, or kept a pistol out of the perpetrators hands.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:02 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Not #1, #2, #4, #6, #8 - so not mostly a list of police officers.

Ok 1 Army reservist (meaning a trained professional not an average citizen)

2 guy shows up 20 mins later and has a shotgun, talks the kid down.

Yes, that's the point. He was armed and stopped the shooter - would he have been able to do this unarmed?

Quote:3 Cop

4 Cop

Former cop - she was an armed civilian, not the police.

Quote:5 Cop

6 Guy had already unloaded his clip and was attempting to reload

*magazine
That is called 'opportunity'. And, again, it was an armed civilian who stopped him.

Quote:7 Cop

8 Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded in Clackamas County, Oregon, when Jacob Roberts opened fire in a local shopping mall. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on Roberts, who then retreated. Meli did not fire his weapon, for fear of striking bystanders.

So he did fuck all?

Seriously? Stopping the killing is fuck all?

Quote:9 Cops

ok so 5 cops and an Army reservist still half cops and mostly trained professionals thus rendering the average citizen criteria moot.

Who's talking about 'average citizen'? We are talking about civilians stopping the gunman.

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22-06-2015, 04:34 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:07 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 04:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

Full report: Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use - An Analysis of Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Crime Victimization Survey Data

Prevalence of weapons increases the risk of either impulsive use or accidental harm. Both of which occur at a far, far greater rate than any purported deterrent or defensive effect. Not that facts are particularly troublesome for the sufficiently ideologically motivated.

A sane response consists of established public policy goals, and weighing the pros and cons of strategies designed to meet those goals.

Studies show that between half a million and two and a half million crimes are prevented by armed civilians annually. The actual numbers depend on sampling methods.

Tough Targets

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22-06-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Use Google -- there's thousands of these things that have happened.... But, the anti-gun people pretend it NEVER happens...

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

Yeah -- ok --- your source is the Violence Policy Center --an outspoken anti-gun group dedicated to the eradication of firearms.....You don't think that might be just a SMIDGE biased???

You might as well expect the Vatican to give a fair report on priests sexual abusing kids.......


Full report: Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use - An Analysis of Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Crime Victimization Survey Data

.......................................

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22-06-2015, 09:40 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 04:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Use Google -- there's thousands of these things that have happened.... But, the anti-gun people pretend it NEVER happens...

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

Full report: Firearm Justifiable Homicides and Non-Fatal Self-Defense Gun Use - An Analysis of Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Crime Victimization Survey Data

So you are comparing events where the specific intent was to kill vs an event where the specific intent is to stop a threat (whereas even the mere presence of a firearm may deter an attack)?

Additionally, I have to point out that preliminary CDC analysis indicates defense with a firearm reduces the risk of injury.
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22-06-2015, 09:53 PM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 01:27 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Please show some events where mass murderers were shot and killed by armed citizens. I'd really like to know. I have not seen anything about this.
Cheers.

http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=88

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23-06-2015, 12:01 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 09:53 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 01:27 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Please show some events where mass murderers were shot and killed by armed citizens. I'd really like to know. I have not seen anything about this.
Cheers.

http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=88

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10....bmYk2EVkX

Cheers mate. I will read them later. (I am expecting visitors now) Smile

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