9 Dead in SC church shooting
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23-06-2015, 12:09 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(22-06-2015 01:35 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Not a cop. A regular citizen carrying a gun.

So there's some moving goalposts, there.

You realize that cops are citizens, right?
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23-06-2015, 12:12 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 12:09 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 01:35 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Not a cop. A regular citizen carrying a gun.

So there's some moving goalposts, there.

You realize that cops are citizens, right?

My earlier question, and I should have been more clear, was ordinary untrained citizens. I will read all the links later.

I do think it sad though that these types of discussions happen so regularly because shootings in the US happen so regularly.

But I suppose there is no going back now. Too many Americans need their guns. For one reason or another. I suspect tiny penises. Tongue

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23-06-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 12:12 AM)Banjo Wrote:  My earlier question, and I should have been more clear, was ordinary untrained citizens. I will read all the links later.

I do think it sad though that these types of discussions happen so regularly because shootings in the US happen so regularly.

But I suppose there is no going back now. Too many Americans need their guns. For one reason or another. I suspect tiny penises. Tongue

The odd thing is that even with training, cops aren't very good shooters, mostly. Honestly, I'd rather have a civilian with shooting experience than a cop, because while a cop may have had training, he also has so many other things on his mind -- legal liability, for instance, or concern over being placed on leave for an investigation -- that his judgement can be subverted. And we've seen that often enough here in America.

Additionally, Army training is training for small-unit tactical operations, not shootouts, usually. A soldier acting alone is probably not going to be much more effective than a citizen with handgun training, because the soldier has been trained to rely on a team effort using organized tactics.

All that said, allowing gun carrying, by citizens, off-duty police, or off-duty military people, allows for the possibility of breaking up an attack. I should think that that would be better than enforcing a passive response on the crowd of victims.
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23-06-2015, 02:21 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 12:12 AM)Banjo Wrote:  My earlier question, and I should have been more clear, was ordinary untrained citizens. I will read all the links later.

Civilian employee protects 20

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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23-06-2015, 02:27 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 12:09 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(22-06-2015 01:35 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Not a cop. A regular citizen carrying a gun.

So there's some moving goalposts, there.

You realize that cops are citizens, right?

No they are trained professionals with specific training in this situation. But I would be fine with only such people having access to firearms.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-06-2015, 03:31 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 02:27 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-06-2015 12:09 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  So there's some moving goalposts, there.

You realize that cops are citizens, right?

No they are trained professionals with specific training in this situation. But I would be fine with only such people having access to firearms.

Many non-cops have training, too.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-06-2015, 05:04 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 12:37 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(23-06-2015 12:12 AM)Banjo Wrote:  My earlier question, and I should have been more clear, was ordinary untrained citizens. I will read all the links later.

I do think it sad though that these types of discussions happen so regularly because shootings in the US happen so regularly.

But I suppose there is no going back now. Too many Americans need their guns. For one reason or another. I suspect tiny penises. Tongue

The odd thing is that even with training, cops aren't very good shooters, mostly. Honestly, I'd rather have a civilian with shooting experience than a cop, because while a cop may have had training, he also has so many other things on his mind -- legal liability, for instance, or concern over being placed on leave for an investigation -- that his judgement can be subverted. And we've seen that often enough here in America.

I've met several of the deputies in our county over the years - through the concealed carry course that one of the deputies taught at my house - using my garage as a classroom and my pistol range for the shooting portion.

Just for fun, we shot for scores. NRA Bullseye scoring (50 foot, using 22 pistols) --- They did OK. I did better.. I had a better teacher and lots more practice.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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23-06-2015, 06:09 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
(23-06-2015 05:04 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(23-06-2015 12:37 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The odd thing is that even with training, cops aren't very good shooters, mostly. Honestly, I'd rather have a civilian with shooting experience than a cop, because while a cop may have had training, he also has so many other things on his mind -- legal liability, for instance, or concern over being placed on leave for an investigation -- that his judgement can be subverted. And we've seen that often enough here in America.

I've met several of the deputies in our county over the years - through the concealed carry course that one of the deputies taught at my house - using my garage as a classroom and my pistol range for the shooting portion.

Just for fun, we shot for scores. NRA Bullseye scoring (50 foot, using 22 pistols) --- They did OK. I did better.. I had a better teacher and lots more practice.

We close our shooting range for five days each year for the local police to use for their annual firearms qualification.

Their marksmanship is, in general, mediocre. Their gun handling skills are only adequate. We have members who are far more skilled than the police.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-06-2015, 06:24 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Some crimes have been stopped by armed civilians. Is there thus even a need to understand the huge disparities in death by gun between the US and other developed countries?

USA rates of gun related homicide are at the same level as in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I'll share the source when I get on a good device.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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23-06-2015, 07:25 AM
RE: 9 Dead in SC church shooting
Interestingly --- the anti-gun people want to ban so-called "assault weapons" --

When last year -- by FBI statistics -----

5 times more people were killed in the USA by KNIVES - than all rifles -- of which "assault weapons" make up only a small fraction of total numbers.

.....

So -- the waiter didn't forget to bring you your knife.....

We just don't trust you with them anymore....

...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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