9 arguments against the empty tomb
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07-10-2015, 12:10 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 11:56 AM)GotIssues Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 11:42 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  (as Carrier has pointed out).

On another thread Bucky reprimands me for not using "mainstream" scholars.

Proceeds to cite a fringe Jesus mythicist who it not mainstream by any means...Dodgy

I believe he is a professor at Columbia, (or was). He's better educated than you. He's not a fringe anything. And you did not address even ONE of his arguments.

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07-10-2015, 12:15 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 12:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 11:56 AM)GotIssues Wrote:  On another thread Bucky reprimands me for not using "mainstream" scholars.

Proceeds to cite a fringe Jesus mythicist who it not mainstream by any means...Dodgy

I believe he is a professor at Columbia, (or was). He's better educated than you. He's not a fringe anything. And you did not address even ONE of his arguments.

Actually, Jesus mythicism is considered a fringe view in modern scholarship. How many mythicist professors teach at accredited universities? 3 or 4 maybe?
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07-10-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
To be fair, Carrier's new book is a heavy read, and it is is highly cited. The information presented is backed by a plethora of scholarly citations. That doesn't mean that the entire concept of jesus was fabricated, nor does it mean that all of the information Carrier presents is or should be, easily dismissed as it is an exhaustive compilation of evidence. To not read it, trace the citations, and consider the information is short sighted. The majority used to think the sun revolved around the earth, and it took years for the truth to come forth. We may never completely know if a man named jesus did or did not exist, but what we do know is the fabrication of the bible is a compilation of fiction, fantasy and forgery....that no one who wrote of jesus knew him, and that there is zero evidence he was the son of a mythical god and performed miracles like Benny Hinn on a world tour.

I am not a mythicist as i believe a man named jesus probably existed who purported himself to be the son of god, and in which the stories told of him were greatly exaggerated obviously, and fleshed out with older mythical hero god constructs into the garbage we have to consider today called the bible, but I can not toss the fuck ton of solid info Carrier researched into the trash bin simply because I am not personally convinced. Carrier does present a well researched perspective and it is worthy of consideration. I use the book for its giant reference list as a go to source for tracing the historicity, and have cited him in some of my work.

Just my two cents.

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"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 12:36 PM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 12:56 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 12:15 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I believe he is a professor at Columbia, (or was). He's better educated than you. He's not a fringe anything. And you did not address even ONE of his arguments.

Actually, Jesus mythicism is considered a fringe view in modern scholarship. How many mythicist professors teach at accredited universities? 3 or 4 maybe?

Says who ? You know how many professors of History in the world are actually experts in their (tiny) actual fields of interet ? 1 ? 2 ?

Ad populum fallacy.

Wrong. "Jesus mythicism" is not a "thing" at all. In general history professors could care less about the question AT ALL. (Obviously you are obcessed with apologists and arguing with them). The ONLY places that hire people who would care about the question at all, are religious institutions, so of course they don't teach at them.

Get a grip. (Still) not one of his arguments addressed.
I do have a question though. Would your statement about "fringe view" be an example of a "strawman" ? Just curious. Tongue

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07-10-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 12:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:15 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  Actually, Jesus mythicism is considered a fringe view in modern scholarship. How many mythicist professors teach at accredited universities? 3 or 4 maybe?

Says who ?

Ad populum fallacy.

Wrong. "Jesus mythicism" is not a "thing" at all. In general history professors could care less about the question AT ALL. (Obviously you are obcessed with apologists and arguing with them). The ONLY places that hire people who would care about the question at all, are religious institutions, so of course they don't teach at them.

Get a grip. (Still) not one of his arguments addressed.
I do have a question though. Would your statement about "fringe view" be an example of a "strawman" ? Just curious. Tongue

It's only the ad populum fallacy if I say "most scholars believe x, therefore x is true." I didn't do that so you just misapplied the fallacy and added to your growing pile of elementary errors.

It's considered "fringe" because so few scholars take the position. That's what fringe means - not part of the mainstream; unconventional, peripheral, or extreme.
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07-10-2015, 01:01 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
If you'd like to start a "Richard Carrier argument" thread then do that elsewhere and I'll chime in. This is not the place for it.
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07-10-2015, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 01:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 12:55 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Says who ?

Ad populum fallacy.

Wrong. "Jesus mythicism" is not a "thing" at all. In general history professors could care less about the question AT ALL. (Obviously you are obcessed with apologists and arguing with them). The ONLY places that hire people who would care about the question at all, are religious institutions, so of course they don't teach at them.

Get a grip. (Still) not one of his arguments addressed.
I do have a question though. Would your statement about "fringe view" be an example of a "strawman" ? Just curious. Tongue

It's only the ad populum fallacy if I say "most scholars believe x, therefore x is true." I didn't do that so you just misapplied the fallacy and added to your growing pile of elementary errors.

It's considered "fringe" because so few scholars take the position. That's what fringe means - not part of the mainstream; unconventional, peripheral, or extreme.

Prove it. Nice try. You're saying most scholars (even though you never did a poll or read any poll about it) don't buy it, so it's not true. That is the ad populum fallacy in reverse, and you know it. "Most scholars" don't take any position on it AT ALL, so your entire line of reasoning is fallacious, speaking of "growing piles of elementary errors". Most scholars don't "take positions" on most subjects that are not directly related to their own small sub-specialties. I know you like saying things like that as it's popular with the apologists, but in fact it's not how real educational institutions work ... which you seem utterly unfamiliar with.

You forgot to answer the "strawman" question.

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07-10-2015, 01:11 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 01:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:55 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  It's only the ad populum fallacy if I say "most scholars believe x, therefore x is true." I didn't do that so you just misapplied the fallacy and added to your growing pile of elementary errors.

It's considered "fringe" because so few scholars take the position. That's what fringe means - not part of the mainstream; unconventional, peripheral, or extreme.

Prove it. Nice try. You're saying most scholars (even though you never did a poll or read any poll about it) don't buy it, so it's not true. That is the ad populum fallacy in reverse, and you know it. "Most scholars" don't take any position on it AT ALL, so your entire line of reasoning is fallacious, speaking of "growing piles of elementary errors".

You forgot to answer the "strawman" question.

Please go away. I don't want to waste any more time with you.
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07-10-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 01:11 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 01:10 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Prove it. Nice try. You're saying most scholars (even though you never did a poll or read any poll about it) don't buy it, so it's not true. That is the ad populum fallacy in reverse, and you know it. "Most scholars" don't take any position on it AT ALL, so your entire line of reasoning is fallacious, speaking of "growing piles of elementary errors".

You forgot to answer the "strawman" question.

Please go away. I don't want to waste any more time with you.

I get that. No one likes to have their garbage challenged.
Guess what ? I'm going nowhere, Mr. "been here less than 24 hours".

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07-10-2015, 01:25 PM
RE: 9 arguments against the empty tomb
(07-10-2015 01:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 01:11 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  Please go away. I don't want to waste any more time with you.

I get that. No one likes to have their garbage challenged.
Guess what ? I'm going nowhere, Mr. "been here less than 24 hours".

You haven't really challenged anything. You keep misrepresenting everything I say and bring up off topic gibberish that has nothing to do with the OP. It's a complete waste of time.
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