A Challenge to Alpha Male
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27-02-2014, 01:25 AM
A Challenge to Alpha Male
Assuming you are agreeable, I would love an sound debate. Let us each take our position in whatever beliefs and values we hold, and do battle.

I don't particularly care for any ground rules. No holds barred, so to speak. I take no issue with personal attacks, although I find them more interesting when they are backed up with examples or evidence.

Let anyone concerned decide for his/her self who has won, if any winner emerges at all.

Do you accept my challenge?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
(27-02-2014 01:25 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Assuming you are agreeable, I would love an sound debate. Let us each take our position in whatever beliefs and values we hold, and do battle.

I don't particularly care for any ground rules. No holds barred, so to speak. I take no issue with personal attacks, although I find them more interesting when they are backed up with examples or evidence.

Let anyone concerned decide for his/her self who has won, if any winner emerges at all.

Do you accept my challenge?
"Whatever beliefs and values we hold" is just a wee bit vague for a debate.

In general I'm interested, but it also depends on the topic. I don't currently have time for something that requires a lot of research. As you made the challenge, why don't you propose a handful of resolutions and side you want to take if not obvious.
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27-02-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
Since both parties seem a bit interested this is a debate between Dark Phoenix and Alpha Male alone. Please follow the rules established in this forum.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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27-02-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
(27-02-2014 11:34 AM)alpha male Wrote:  "Whatever beliefs and values we hold" is just a wee bit vague for a debate.

In general I'm interested, but it also depends on the topic. I don't currently have time for something that requires a lot of research. As you made the challenge, why don't you propose a handful of resolutions and side you want to take if not obvious.

Fair enough. I hold the Atheist position with regard to gods and religions, and I also disbelieve in the supernatural in general. I assume, with readiness to stand corrected, that you hold the theist position and are a member of a faith. I assume the logical place to begin is to explain our positions on god and religion, and see where they conflict.

I wouldn't worry about research so much, since the majority of my arguments are philosophical. I don't demand a million citations.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
To begin with, as long as you don't mind, I would like to get a sense of where we both come from. What is our background?

I was raised a Mormon in Washington D.C. and left that faith to become and atheist on January 1st 2013. My initial belief in god was by default and by way of trust between me and my family.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
(27-02-2014 11:55 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Fair enough. I hold the Atheist position with regard to gods and religions, and I also disbelieve in the supernatural in general. I assume, with readiness to stand corrected, that you hold the theist position and are a member of a faith. I assume the logical place to begin is to explain our positions on god and religion, and see where they conflict.
Howsabout why doesn't god heal amputees or something along that line? That's a fun one.
Quote:I wouldn't worry about research so much, since the majority of my arguments are philosophical. I don't demand a million citations.
Cool, I can't do something on science or the early church fathers or such right now. I would also need a decent window for response. I'm in business taxes - the corporate deadline is 3.15 and the partnership 4.15. So, either response time needs to be up to a week, r we should wait until after 4.15.

Other rules I would want would be no videos, no unnecessary images, and primarily original material (no big c&p's from other sources).
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27-02-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
My position is fairly simple. Just as a side note, proving or disproving god isn't the route I want to take here, since I believe either task to be impossible.

1. I am unconvinced by any argument for god's existence.
2. I am unconvinced by any argument for the existence of any particular, personal god, as revealed through religion.
3. I am unconvinced of the divinity of any scripture.
4. I am unconvinced by arguments from faith, and don't consider them to be even a mildly good way of achieving anything close to knowledge.
5. I consider the three monotheistic religions, Judaism, Islam, and Christianity not only to be false and fraudulent, but immoral and harmful to society as a whole.
6. I am unconvinced by Creationism or Intelligent Design.

I am sure there is more, but this is an excellent beginning. If you are convinced by any of these categories of argument, I would love to hear them explained. Please feel free.

Just so you are aware, and I am entirely serious on this point, I will change my mind if I feel you have convinced me. If you show me I am wrong, and I see that I am, I will concede the argument and reconsider my position.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 12:18 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
(27-02-2014 12:03 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Howsabout why doesn't god heal amputees or something along that line? That's a fun one.

I am unsure as to how serious you are about this line of questioning, but I suppose there will be time enough for everything as we go along. I would prefer to begin with an introduction of our backgrounds and a general statement of our beliefs, or in my case, lack of.

Quote:Cool, I can't do something on science or the early church fathers or such right now. I would also need a decent window for response. I'm in business taxes - the corporate deadline is 3.15 and the partnership 4.15. So, either response time needs to be up to a week, r we should wait until after 4.15.

I understand of course. I am not particularly science literate myself, so we will be on the same footing there. As far as a response window, take all the time you need. I don't particularly mind if I go several days without a response. Life has a way of needing attention, and the forum is secondary, we all know this. A week is perfectly alright with me. I for one work irregular hours that can be long on certain days, so I hope you won't be offended if I am not on every day at a certain time. As long as you don't mind being that flexible, we should be perfectly alright.

Quote:Other rules I would want would be no videos, no unnecessary images, and primarily original material (no big c&p's from other sources).

Agreed. I don't particularly care for videos, images, and overly long quotations. It sounds as though our styles are similar. Although, I hope you don't mind the odd short and to the point quotation. If you do, just let me know, and I can get on well enough without it.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
I'm a little confused as to what you have in mind - a debate (which to me is a discussion of a specific topic for a limited period) or just an open discussion that can go anywhere with no particular end in sight. Doesn't really matter to me.
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27-02-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: A Challenge to Alpha Male
(27-02-2014 01:34 PM)alpha male Wrote:  I'm a little confused as to what you have in mind - a debate (which to me is a discussion of a specific topic for a limited period) or just an open discussion that can go anywhere with no particular end in sight. Doesn't really matter to me.

Apologies. I suppose I mean for it to begin as a discussion, and evolve into a debate when we reach a subject upon which we differ. I don't know what you believe about god, our origins, religion, science, etc.... I don't feel that I can have a very specific issue to debate until I do.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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